The Old Derry / Londonderry name problem

[Myles Na G.]

It's not about majorities anymore.  Nationalists have been succesful in ensuring that 

The principle of the GFA is that the status of NI is determined by the majority living there, not by people living in Ireland generally.

I don't argue with the logic or merits of that.

The status of Derry should be decided by the majority living there, not by people living in Antrim.

Nationalists have championed the 'Equality Agenda' which means Equality Impact of changes of policy need to be assessed in order to safeguard sectarian policies. An adversely effected minority means that the majority don't get what they want in such circumstances and this is the case with the sectarian motivated proposed change to Londonderry's name.

Safeguard against sectarian policies, you mean. At least, I hope you mean!

[ziggysego]

Rather, the problem is with the perception of sectarian motivation.

How can it not be?

So when the Nationalist community are in the majority and ask for change to reflect this... we're sectarian? Interesting....

[Maguire01]

But honestly, what is the motivation, if not sectarian? It's all about identity surely - how can that not be sectarian? I'm not saying that such a motivation is necessarily a bad thing. I can fully understand why many people - especially those who live there - want the name changed, but let's call a spade a spade.

Are you equating the Irish identify of northern nationalists with their religion? How very unionist of you.

Not at all. You're obviously mistaking the term 'sectarian' as relating exclusively to religion. I wasn't.

But anyway, if it isn't an issue of asserting identity, what is it?

[Donagh]

Not at all. You're obviously mistaking the term 'sectarian' as relating exclusively to religion. I wasn't.

But anyway, if it isn't an issue of asserting identity, what is it?

Am I? What else is there in my identity which you associate with belonging to a 'sect'?

For me the name change is simply a matter of easing the memory of an unpleasant, oppressive and colonial past. Bit like Stalingrad, Leningrad, Queenstown or Kingstown.

[Roger]

It's not about majorities anymore.  Nationalists have been succesful in ensuring that 

The principle of the GFA is that the status of NI is determined by the majority living there, not by people living in Ireland generally.

I don't argue with the logic or merits of that.

The status of Derry should be decided by the majority living there, not by people living in Antrim.

Nationalists have championed the 'Equality Agenda' which means Equality Impact of changes of policy need to be assessed in order to safeguard sectarian policies. An adversely effected minority means that the majority don't get what they want in such circumstances and this is the case with the sectarian motivated proposed change to Londonderry's name.

Safeguard against sectarian policies, you mean. At least, I hope you mean!

Yes. Sorry about that.

Rather, the problem is with the perception of sectarian motivation.

How can it not be?

So when the Nationalist community are in the majority and ask for change to reflect this... we're sectarian? Interesting....

What's good for the goose....

[Roger]

For me the name change is simply a matter of easing the memory of an unpleasant, oppressive and colonial past. Bit like Stalingrad, Leningrad, Queenstown or Kingstown.

Do you live there? This is highly Political and nothing to do with changing a name back or ease of speaking or however it is dressed up for disguising partisan and narrow minded parochial and anti-British sentiment.  As I am constantly reminded on this board, by you included, those days of sectarianism and showing who is boss are gone and anyone who thinks like that is a dinasaur and neanderthal.  You fall into your own category of contempt. 

[The Watcher Pat]

Why not just put it to a vote now Roger then. If more people who actually live there we'll call it Derry if not then I'll even call it LondonDerry....Same old Unionist rhetoric the same as happened with the maze stadium..If the NI team/ Linfield don't like we'll stop it all happening .Don't like change...don't give a inch...Sick listening to it....there has to be give and take on both sides!

Its not all one way this peace process lads.

[Roger]

Why not just put it to a vote now Roger then. If more people who actually live there we'll call it Derry if not then I'll even call it LondonDerry....Same old Unionist rhetoric the same as happened with the maze stadium..If the NI team/ Linfield don't like we'll stop it all happening .Don't like change...don't give a inch...Sick listening to it....there has to be give and take on both sides!

Its not all one way this peace process lads.

It was put to the vote in 1998.  The process is clear.  You just can't cry 'equality' or 'parity of esteem' when it doesn't suit and then go into an anti-unionist (plus out of nowhere Linfield and Maze) outburst when it does. It's not all one way this process. At least be consistent. Suck it up.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Straight question for you Roger (and none of the 'hypothetical' crap please): should a plebiscite in the not too distant future in the six counties return a majority for a reunited Ireland, would you accept it peaceably and without recourse? 

[Roger]

Straight question for you Roger (and none of the 'hypothetical' crap please): should a plebiscite in the not too distant future in the six counties return a majority for a reunited Ireland, would you accept it peaceably and without recourse?

Yes.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Straight question for you Roger (and none of the 'hypothetical' crap please): should a plebiscite in the not too distant future in the six counties return a majority for a reunited Ireland, would you accept it peaceably and without recourse?

Yes.

Fair enough, thanks.

[Roger]

Fair enough, thanks.

No worries. 

Since there has been no unfavourable plebiscite that you talk about, do you accept that Northern Ireland exists, is not part of the Republic of Ireland, is an integral part of the UK and has the right to determine its own constitutional future?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Fair enough, thanks.

No worries. 

Since there has been no unfavourable plebiscite that you talk about, do you accept that Northern Ireland exists, is not part of the Republic of Ireland, is an integral part of the UK and has the right to determine its own constitutional future?

Yes.

[The Watcher Pat]

Why not just put it to a vote now Roger then. If more people who actually live there we'll call it Derry if not then I'll even call it LondonDerry....Same old Unionist rhetoric the same as happened with the maze stadium..If the NI team/ Linfield don't like we'll stop it all happening .Don't like change...don't give a inch...Sick listening to it....there has to be give and take on both sides!

Its not all one way this peace process lads.

It was put to the vote in 1998.  The process is clear.  You just can't cry 'equality' or 'parity of esteem' when it doesn't suit and then go into an anti-unionist (plus out of nowhere Linfield and Maze) outburst when it does. It's not all one way this process. At least be consistent. Suck it up.

Exactly Roger its not all a one way process...it works both ways...Now just a example..I watched a debate in stormont the other night which happened to go on for about 8 hrs...But the whole jist of the whole debate centered around the notion that a nationalist can't be the new justice minister! Why because if they do then it wont have cross community support. So sinn Fein are going to allow this but the SDLP are up in arms. ( because sinn fein recognise that if they went for justice minister it would be up roar, so stood down)


Now do you think if the same situation was put to any unionist parties would they do the same?

[Donagh]

Do you live there? This is highly Political and nothing to do with changing a name back or ease of speaking or however it is dressed up for disguising partisan and narrow minded parochial and anti-British sentiment.  As I am constantly reminded on this board, by you included, those days of sectarianism and showing who is boss are gone and anyone who thinks like that is a dinasaur and neanderthal.  You fall into your own category of contempt.

What does it matter where I live? It's a town in my country just like Cobh, Dún Laoghaire or Craigavon for that matter and as a republican and anti-colonialist, I'm naturally going to reassert my country's sovereignty by ridding it of reminders of an unpleasant past.

But aside from that, the problem here is the unionist refusal to accept the reality of that past and accept that if you want to get on with your neighbours you should show them a little respect. Wheeling out the name of that town at every opportunity is as insulting to your neighbours as painting "Dirty Fenian cnuts, know your place!" across their back fence. Sometimes the respectful thing to do if your neighbour infringes a little on your space, is to say nothing and keep your domineering tendencies to yourself - particularly if that senile oul bastard of a grandfather of yours burnt the neighbours house to the ground.