IFA begging Ireland players to play for them

[red hander]

Like the Israelis who brand any critics anti-semitic, the Are We A Country brigade label any critics bigots (which is the ultimate irony, if they knew what irony was), defectors or traitors. I don't hate the statelet, as hate involves feeling, and I feel nothing for the statelet.

Typifies what I have thought / known for a long time i.e. The nationalist community's belief that only protestants / unionists can be bigoted.  Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is a 2 way street.

Isn't it the very definition of bigotry to harbour a conviction that an entire community has a particular trait, characteristic or belief that you consider unacceptable?

Not sure where I stated that the entire nationalist community were bigoted

Well, you make a pretty big assumption that the nationalist community (i.e every nationalist) believes only protestants/unionists can be bigoted. But you must be right, I suppose, because you say you know it to be true, and have done so for a long time.  Sorry for being a pedant, by the way

[michaelg]

Tiresome.

[Hardy]

[Edit]

You didn't. You said you know they believe only protestants/unionists could be bigoted. That's ascribing a belief to an entire community.

What is this?  Pedants' corner.  I think you got the general gist of the point I was making.

It's pedantry to point out the difference between saying people are bigoted and saying they think others are bigoted?

I did indeed get the gist of what you were saying. You were saying you've known for a long time that the entire nationalist community hold an unacceptable belief - i.e. that only protestants/unionists can be bigoted. That reads like a bigoted statement to any reasonable individual.

[Myles Na G.]

If it's bigotry you're after, look no further than some elements of the GAA and some GAA types. Little Irelanders, the mirror image of the tight-arsed Jim Allister style unionist.

[red hander]

'If it's bigotry you're after, look no further than some elements of the GAA and some GAA types. Little Irelanders, the mirror image of the tight-arsed Jim Allister style unionist.'

The debate has now ended, the Oracle has spoken

[Main Street]

Myles of Lies, the infallible authority on lies and bigotry.

[Myles Na G.]

'Speak of the devil and he doth appear'
Step forward RH and MS...

[Main Street]

How's Alex Bruce getting on with the IFA team, has he been given a run out yet?
Although we were his first choice that shouldn't be held against him, should it? He can't be any worse than the plodders NI had at centre half against the Netherlands.

[Tony Baloney]

He hasnt even got a club so I can't imagine he'll break much Delft wherever he goes.

[Main Street]

He's in a similar position (and similar standard) to his ex-club mate Darren O'Dea, yet Darren is off to the Euros.

[MW]

Not really clutching at straws, was merely using examples and remembered that incident, because it got media attention, (now why would it get media attention if it was no big deal?)

Oh, I don't know, it's not like the media has ever hyped something up for their own ends, or picked up on a pathetic whiny little bit of MOPEry.

.i think your clutching at straws..from my post you focus on the healy incident and the songs,yet you ignore the lennon point.

No, I followed on from nifan's post.

Certainly, was referring to the anthem, gstq,not many catholics i know would feel comfortable in that environment.

And here is a classic example of the goalposts shifting. You said "and he must think songs in the stands aren't sectarian". Challenged once on this, you just ignored the challenge. Challenged a second time, you're going to pretend you were talking about the choice of anthem. Sorry, old chap, but you're simply bullsh***ing now.

Answer me this, is Healy the ni captain? Was he at the time?

No. And no.

[MW]

What i don't understand is why NI fans expect players like Mc Clean to play for them?

The obvious answer would be, "because they're from Northern Ireland".

But, to pick up on something that's been said in various forms over the last few pages of this thread, namely "why can they [NI fans] not just understand that we [nationalists?] don't want to play for/support NI"? Can I suggest that it may be partly to do with mixed messages that are given even from the same individual...so for example...

you would swear they never knew the troubles existed and that most catholics/nationalist don't feel comfortable in an atmosphere such as Windsor park.

This seems to suggest you think "Catholics/nationalists" aren't so much reluctant to support NI as uncomfortable with the home venue, or more precisely something to do with the "atmosphere" therein. Could you elaborate on what you mean by this "atmosphere"?

I for one could never bring myself to play for the Ni team, in fact id go as far as saying id play for no team if the option to play for the south was taking away. what the IFA have to realise is that players have the right to choose, they cant change a political settlement just because they are loosing potential players who probably wouldn't play for them anyway.

This however seems to tell of only wanting to play for the ROI, and not wanting any association with NI.

I for one am not crying out for the removal of GSTQ or waving of union jacks at windsor park because i dont think the hostility will ever really go away in my lifetime.

This says that anthems and flags aren't important - "hostility" is the issue (I genuinely don't know what you mean, as in directed by who, against who).

I appreciate you're not being dishonest with any of this, but it feels like a mixed message. At least you're not being like the likes of "eddie d", who will throw in comments about "sectarian songs" and then when challenged pretend he was actually talking about anthems.

Even from James McClean himself the message has been far from straighforward. As I've said he's flip-flopped all over the place, and over the last year has variously indicated:

- he was disappointed not to be called up to the NI senior squad for the Carling Nations Cup
- he was pleased and relieved to be called up to the NI senior squad for the Euro qualifier
- he was annoyed to be called up for the NI senior squad because he felt it was only because he was on the verge of a move to Sunderland
- he pulled out of the NI squad because his imminent move to Sunderland might give him a chance of a call-up by the ROI squad
- his dream was always to play for the ROI
- he grew up in a "nationalist city" where everyone supports the ROI
- he was using his NI under-21 appearances as a stepping stone
- he was uncomfortable with NI matches due to flags and unspecificed chants at Windsor (though it's unclear when he was at a NI game there)
- he never felt at home playing for the NI under-21s
- he did some king of sectarian headcount of the NI under-21 squad and that there weren't enough "Catholics" in the team for his liking
- he thought any "Catholic" who said they were comfortable playing for NI was a liar

[MW]

Like the Israelis who brand any critics anti-semitic, the Are We A Country brigade label any critics bigots (which is the ultimate irony, if they knew what irony was), defectors or traitors. I don't hate the statelet, as hate involves feeling, and I feel nothing for the statelet.

Funny then that you couldn't even make your point without trotting out "Are We A Country"...

[dillinger]

I must say, i would like the Republic to do well, as a lot of Northern Ireland fans do. This thing about J.M. well it's got to a stage of Meh him. No one likes a shit stirer.

[red hander]

Like the Israelis who brand any critics anti-semitic, the Are We A Country brigade label any critics bigots (which is the ultimate irony, if they knew what irony was), defectors or traitors. I don't hate the statelet, as hate involves feeling, and I feel nothing for the statelet.

Funny then that you couldn't even make your point without trotting out "Are We A Country"...

Annoy you, does it? Good