Author Topic: Tyrone 2008  (Read 36631 times)

sam03/05

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2007, 12:15:23 PM »
Gilmore still has two years as an under 21 player but is a massive prospect.
I disagree about Murray. I remember him doing a man marking job on Martin Clarke in an all ireland semi final a few years ago and he was superb. I think his defending could really improve if he was working within Tyrone set up.

TyronePhilly

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2007, 03:08:34 PM »
Watched the 2003 Semi-Final against Kerry last night. Tyrone's fitness was immense! They tackled like rabid dogs.

They have never reached that same level of fitness....which I feel may be linked to the departure of Paddy Tally.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

rrhf

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2007, 03:20:37 PM »
I believe that Tally has been a bigger loss to Tyrone football than the retirement of Peter Canavan.  Harte showed too much loyalty to players this year who were in the main playing quite average, but who went stale literally after the Mc Kenna cup and bar Donegal game there was a level this team never returned to. (4 -5 games)  They didnt strike me as a team well trained.  That added to the no of injuries (soft tissue) would lead me to conclude that Tyrones training was and has been at fault for their failure to be competitive for the past 2 years since winning the All Ireland.  Appetite by some of the players will also have to be scrutinised before they are picked again and anyone who looked overweight will have to be worked on harder either through nutition or fitness.     

orangeman

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2007, 03:46:41 PM »
Carmen and Errigal are two of the biggest sides in Tyrone and between them have won most of the recent titles - no dispute about that ? Ok ? Then why does Carmen only have one representative on the Tyrone panel ??

tyrone realist

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2007, 04:26:35 PM »
Carmen and Errigal are two of the biggest sides in Tyrone and between them have won most of the recent titles - no dispute about that ? Ok ? Then why does Carmen only have one representative on the Tyrone panel ??

Because the only other man of the required standard, Gaby McCallan, won't play for the county. Mark Donnelly would have been close this year had he stayed in Ireland. If you asked anyone from Carmen they'd tell you the teams of 95/96/97 was a whole lot better than those of 04/05/06 and it was reflected in the amount of Carrickmore men in the county panels of those years.

sam03/05

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2007, 04:32:58 PM »
Not that many outstading Carmen players who I think would get into Tyrone panel to be honest.
I feel that is what makes them so good, they have very few county men and play together every week.
They rely on a great team ethos and spirit rather than outstanding individuals. Conor Gormley apart.

Wee Roddy

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2007, 04:55:19 PM »
Have to say that I am a bit dissapointed by people saying all Carmen have is work ethic. In last years county final they played Errigal of the field in footballing terms but could not convert the frees they won. Errigal subsequently were hailed a great side because they should have got to an Ulster final.
Incidently a lot of Carrickmore people would suggest that the 2004 team was better than the 90s team. But for a spait of indicipline they would have beaten  Mayobridge and played Cross in the Ulster Final.
I would also say that, without naming names, we have alot of players that are as good as some of those in the county panel. In my opinion Colm McGurk is as good as Ricey or McCaul and Ciaran McAleer is better than Davy Harte or Paul Quinn. Coalisland would have a similar gripe

southderryman

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2007, 05:00:34 PM »
Have to say that I am a bit dissapointed by people saying all Carmen have is work ethic. In last years county final they played Errigal of the field in footballing terms but could not convert the frees they won. Errigal subsequently were hailed a great side because they should have got to an Ulster final.
Incidently a lot of Carrickmore people would suggest that the 2004 team was better than the 90s team. But for a spait of indicipline they would have beaten  Mayobridge and played Cross in the Ulster Final.
I would also say that, without naming names, we have alot of players that are as good as some of those in the county panel. In my opinion Colm McGurk is as good as Ricey or McCaul and Ciaran McAleer is better than Davy Harte or Paul Quinn. Coalisland would have a similar gripe

a great job u did  "without naming names" there!  :D

Wee Roddy

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2007, 05:04:24 PM »
 ::) ::) Sorry, they are the obvious ones but there are another few who i hope will prove it before the end of the year!! Do you follow Tyrone football?

Carmen Stateside

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »
I would also say that, without naming names, we have alot of players that are as good as some of those in the county panel. In my opinion Colm McGurk is as good as Ricey or McCaul and Ciaran McAleer is better than Davy Harte or Paul Quinn. Coalisland would have a similar gripe

Would have to agree with you Roddy on this one! Ciaran Mc Aleer should have been their three years ago!!

southderryman

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2007, 05:27:23 PM »
::) ::) Sorry, they are the obvious ones but there are another few who i hope will prove it before the end of the year!! Do you follow Tyrone football?

have a slight passing intrest, would go to an odd game as long it doesn't clash with any derry club or county games. always like to keep an eye on the neighbours!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 05:44:59 PM by southderryman »

Big Mickey

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tyrone
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2007, 08:34:33 PM »
heres a few new players that will sort out tyrone in the next 3 or 4 yrs hopefully

Pj Quinn: an excellant corner back,future allstar and a cert for the breakthrough next year

Conal mcelholm (omagh): best full back in the county (including mc carron for dromore) 6-2/3 and fast.injury put him out this year but back in trainin now.ne1 who has cn him play knows what im talkin about

d mc caul: this year will do him the world of good,pushin for next year

cookstown lads, gilly and murray:talent is unquestionable but gillys dedication is doubtful.both arent gr8 defenisively either.good options tho

Justin mc mahon: the midfield partner for cavanagh without a doubt.give him a few games and let him get used to it.good fielder but mite need to bulk up slightly to turn from a very good county midfielder to an unstoppable midfeider

Jason mc annulla:not that high a profile at the minute but ask ne1 whos marked him and they'l tell.speed to burn,absolute powerhouse and a brilliant eye for goal.reminds me of coulter.will hopefully keep his head screwed on and give it a lash in the next few years

niall mcginn donaghmore: unmarkable when the right ball is put into him,problem is tho when the right ball isnt hit in,not gr8 at winning dirty ball which is what is sometimes needed at county level but still, one of the best intyrone

Plunet kane: dont no that much about the lad except that he's big,strong,fast, got an eye for goal and can catch a ball which is good enuf for me.dont kno what his attitude is like tho


Brian toner: quite small which cud go against him but still rate him better that philly,next brian dooher????

aidan cassidy:a great player at both full forward or midfield.big strong and can take a score aswell.surprised he didnt make it this year.think he wud take a year in the tyrone senior set-up b4 he breaks thru as he needs to refine his play slightly


A few others are dean oneil,daisy,murphy (galbally,avin a gr8 year i hear) and frank mcguigan (not young but still a good palyer)

dont rate philly toner,think he's a lazy player that wud get caught out at county level and also dont think mc carron from dromore is as good as every1 4rm dromore makes him out to be.he's playing a gr8 defence there and garry gives him alot of cover.shud be given his chance tho.

Also need to get rid of hub in midfield,2 brutal seasons in a row not means only 1 thing...not good enuf. ricey needs to get his head right and mulligan needs to get into shape.dooher and oneil need rest and mcguigan hopefully will make an appearance at sum stage

Puckoon

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2007, 10:11:19 PM »
Id be inclined to agree with wee roddy's claim that there are players, just as good, if not better from carmen and coalisland who are not in the tyrone panel, than some of those from errigal who while being honest solid footballers, have hardly set the game alight since 2005. Davy does well with his point per game, and is always available for the ball, but his tackling isnt hitting the standards that I think the tyrone work ethic was built on. Enda is a great player, who suffered those tough injuries, but along with alot of his double celtic cross winning team mates - maybe the hunger has dropped a little. Its easy for people to tell supporters that we are quick to criticise and that we couldnt do better - however, its not hard to see that the hunger isnt there, the obvious fire in the belly of the team who hadnt wont prior to 2003, and who were angrily snarling for revenge against armagh in the semi of 2005 just isnt there right now. All players can suffer a dip in form right now, but too many tyrone men have suffered it at the same time now. Some blame has to lie with those responsible for the conditioning of the team, and at team management. Why wont gaby mccallan play for the county? Is mickey as impartial as we are led to believe. Young McAnulla is a super prospect - kinda reminds me of richard thornton as a minor.

tyrone realist

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2007, 11:56:23 PM »
I think before you look at 2008, you'd need to do a postmortem on 2007.

First things first, the positives.

An Ulster title is not to be sniffed at, especially in Tyrone. 2 All Irelands or not, we're only 5th out of 9 counties in the Anglo Celt Roll of Honour and it pays to remember that. Indeed, 25 different players played their part in winning the Ulster Championship on the field and despite the fact a few are lambasted on this board it's still an achievement however diluted Sam may make it seem.

Raymond Mulgrew is starting to show glimpses of his true potential. Several top drawer performances and was prepared to lead in Croke Park when others hid.

Conor Gormley - The Jimmy Saville of this Tyrone side. The rest of the country doesn't know his true worth because of his versatility. The man I'd want leading this Tyrone side next year whether Dooher is fit or not.

Retaining Division 1 status. Albeit, it was by pure chance on the last day, but the restructuring of the leagues means the all 7 games next year should be reasonably competitive and a good ground for blooding the younger guys.

Several new faces making a good showing. Very few players come into a county panel and make an instant impact, generally most take the guts of 2 years to adapt to the differences in club football / County Under 21 football to Senior Inter County Football. Niall Gormley, Tommy McGuigan, Damien McCaul, Justin McMahon and Col Cavanagh have all contributed in their debut season. As mentioned above, Mulgrew is in his second year, just look at the difference. Remember the Sean Cavanagh of 2002 vs 2003. These lads will all come good yet if they're persisted with.

Now the bit we're all good at - the negatives.

Injuries. Some have said injuries cost us the All-Ireland. Whilst that may have been putting the cart in front of the horse, a Tyrone team with McGuigan, and a fully fit O'Neill and Dooher would have taken some stopping. However, injuries are a part of life and can't be helped...

Training - Or can they be avoided? I might have rosy tinted spectacles on, but I don't seem to remember too many soft tissue related problems in the Tally era. This has been touched on previously, but Tyrone looked as sharp in February as they did in August this year. Why? There's no doubting the commitment of most of the panel and they stay in shape over the winter months, but any trainer / coach worth his salt looks at having his team peaking around late summer. There was no obvious change in Tyrone this year or last year. In 2005, the sheer volume of games improved them - against Down and the first Cavan game they looked sluggish at best. Contrast the fitness and the physique of Tyrone 03/04 and Tyrone 06/07. Any difference?

The backroom team - Despite the sound of sharpening knifes from some supporters, it's fair to say that Harte enjoys the support where it counts - the TCB Management Committee and a large part of the County Committee. However, the current backroom staff appears, rightly or wrongly, to be Clogher Valley centric. There's no questioning the value of Tony Donnelly, however, could a freshening of personnel give a new impetious to some of the jaded players?

Midfield - With respect, the combination of Cavanagh and Hub isn't working and I don't feel it's either mans fault. What most people tend to forget is that Hub spent most of his Minor, Under 21 and early Senior days playing Midfield with Cormac, both complementing each other. The problem with Hub and Sean seems to be that Cavanagh wants to get forward as quick as possible and as often as possible with leaving Hub to do an anchoring role which he isn't best suited to. You'll find that Hub's best games come against midfielders that suit his game of getting forward and getting back in equal measure like the 2003 AIF and Donegal this year where despite being much maligned for his wides he otherwise had his best game in Tyrone colours since returning from Oz.

Full Back - The attempted horses for course routine isn't working. McGinley, Gourley and McMahon all got exposed in different ways in their games at full back. The solution? It's not for me to say who but someone needs to be given an extended run at full back and if it means making that choice now and working with them individually over the winter then so be it.

Secondary competitions - Many on this board have questioned why established players are continually played in secondary competitions and I thought it was fairly obvious - because they enjoy playing football. With so many enlightened  ??? suggestions on this and other threads Mickey could put 2 or 3 teams out surely? Whilst the system is all important in Tyrone's game, surely Harte and the mainstays like O'Neill, Gormley, Cavanagh, Jordan and Dooher can see the benefit of not playing much football before St Patrick's Day next year?


Regarding 2008, it's far too early to be talking about panels and the like. There's still 13+ games of Club Championship football to be played in Tyrone between now and the start of October and I'm sure that Mickey Harte will be keeping an eye on all of them as well as a few league games and a couple of lads will stake a real claim.

hardstation

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Re: Tyrone 2008
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2007, 11:57:43 PM »

I think before you look at 2008, you'd need to do a postmortem on 2007.

First things first, the positives.

An Ulster title is not to be sniffed at, especially in Tyrone. 2 All Irelands or not, we're only 5th out of 9 counties in the Anglo Celt Roll of Honour and it pays to remember that. Indeed, 25 different players played their part in winning the Ulster Championship on the field and despite the fact a few are lambasted on this board it's still an achievement however diluted Sam may make it seem.

Raymond Mulgrew is starting to show glimpses of his true potential. Several top drawer performances and was prepared to lead in Croke Park when others hid.

Conor Gormley - The Jimmy Saville of this Tyrone side. The rest of the country doesn't know his true worth because of his versatility. The man I'd want leading this Tyrone side next year whether Dooher is fit or not.

Retaining Division 1 status. Albeit, it was by pure chance on the last day, but the restructuring of the leagues means the all 7 games next year should be reasonably competitive and a good ground for blooding the younger guys.

Several new faces making a good showing. Very few players come into a county panel and make an instant impact, generally most take the guts of 2 years to adapt to the differences in club football / County Under 21 football to Senior Inter County Football. Niall Gormley, Tommy McGuigan, Damien McCaul, Justin McMahon and Col Cavanagh have all contributed in their debut season. As mentioned above, Mulgrew is in his second year, just look at the difference. Remember the Sean Cavanagh of 2002 vs 2003. These lads will all come good yet if they're persisted with.

Now the bit we're all good at - the negatives.

Injuries. Some have said injuries cost us the All-Ireland. Whilst that may have been putting the cart in front of the horse, a Tyrone team with McGuigan, and a fully fit O'Neill and Dooher would have taken some stopping. However, injuries are a part of life and can't be helped...

Training - Or can they be avoided? I might have rosy tinted spectacles on, but I don't seem to remember too many soft tissue related problems in the Tally era. This has been touched on previously, but Tyrone looked as sharp in February as they did in August this year. Why? There's no doubting the commitment of most of the panel and they stay in shape over the winter months, but any trainer / coach worth his salt looks at having his team peaking around late summer. There was no obvious change in Tyrone this year or last year. In 2005, the sheer volume of games improved them - against Down and the first Cavan game they looked sluggish at best. Contrast the fitness and the physique of Tyrone 03/04 and Tyrone 06/07. Any difference?

The backroom team - Despite the sound of sharpening knifes from some supporters, it's fair to say that Harte enjoys the support where it counts - the TCB Management Committee and a large part of the County Committee. However, the current backroom staff appears, rightly or wrongly, to be Clogher Valley centric. There's no questioning the value of Tony Donnelly, however, could a freshening of personnel give a new impetious to some of the jaded players?

Midfield - With respect, the combination of Cavanagh and Hub isn't working and I don't feel it's either mans fault. What most people tend to forget is that Hub spent most of his Minor, Under 21 and early Senior days playing Midfield with Cormac, both complementing each other. The problem with Hub and Sean seems to be that Cavanagh wants to get forward as quick as possible and as often as possible with leaving Hub to do an anchoring role which he isn't best suited to. You'll find that Hub's best games come against midfielders that suit his game of getting forward and getting back in equal measure like the 2003 AIF and Donegal this year where despite being much maligned for his wides he otherwise had his best game in Tyrone colours since returning from Oz.

Full Back - The attempted horses for course routine isn't working. McGinley, Gourley and McMahon all got exposed in different ways in their games at full back. The solution? It's not for me to say who but someone needs to be given an extended run at full back and if it means making that choice now and working with them individually over the winter then so be it.

Secondary competitions - Many on this board have questioned why established players are continually played in secondary competitions and I thought it was fairly obvious - because they enjoy playing football. With so many enlightened  ??? suggestions on this and other threads Mickey could put 2 or 3 teams out surely? Whilst the system is all important in Tyrone's game, surely Harte and the mainstays like O'Neill, Gormley, Cavanagh, Jordan and Dooher can see the benefit of not playing much football before St Patrick's Day next year?


Regarding 2008, it's far too early to be talking about panels and the like. There's still 13+ games of Club Championship football to be played in Tyrone between now and the start of October and I'm sure that Mickey Harte will be keeping an eye on all of them as well as a few league games and a couple of lads will stake a real claim.
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