new order in Ulster

[screenexile]

Derry missing Kevin McGuckin all season! McGuigan was the top no. 11... 2 seasons ago, as was SO'N player of the year then too, a lot can change from then! As for Dooher he only missed one half of one match! 

If you want to talk about players missing what about Kevin McGuckin missing from our team all year? Joe Diver for a large portion, Eoin Bradley as well!

Just remember that every team has their problems to deal with and even with Tyrone's supposed "conveyor belt of talent". You still struggled and failed to achieve your goals!

[Star Spangler]

If you want to talk about players missing what about Kevin McGuckin missing from our team all year? Joe Diver for a large portion, Eoin Bradley as well!

The only time I saw Eoin Bradley this year was against Dublin and he was pure dung.  He's hardly a player yous would miss!

[tbrick18]

Now as for the injured player thing....its purely a "what if" scenario. What if O'Neill was fit? What if we'd got the penalty? What if what if....
You can only judge a team by what is available on the panel and by results. Saying Tyrone would be a different team with everyone fit....sure derry could say the same. So could Monaghan. So it is nonsense making this argument as the fact is had all players been fit on all sides there is still no guarantee the outcome would be any different as any team can beat any other on any given day. You might as well be 20 points away from an AI semi as 2 cause the end result is the same.

Given that S O'N is a former and recent player of the year, and Brian Mc Guigan is acknowledged as perhaps the best play maker in the country (and both recent Celtic Cross winners to boot) it's a little more than an idle 'what-if' surely? Who else of that calibre has any county with real aspirations been similarly missing this year?

Derry were missing Kevin  Mcguckian for the whole championship up until the dublin game where he was not match fit.
We were missing Joe Diver through injury.
Kevin McCloy carrying a finger injury.
These 3 players are as important for Derry as McGuigan and O'Neill are for Tyrone.
Now as for McGuigan being the best play maker in the country...he was a couple of years ago. But lets face it, due to injury he cant be counted as that any more and may never reach those heights again due to the nature of his injury. Very disappointing as he was fantastic to watch.
The same can be said of stephen o'neill, though I'd say he could well make a return to form in the future as his injuries are more conventional and could well be healed.
As for "Who else of that calibre has any county with real aspirations been similarly missing this year? ". All teams have very real aspirations every year, be it win a match, win a provincial title or win the AI. To suggest that any of the teams hoping to win a match do not have players who are as important to them as the likes of tyrone missing O'Neill for example, is an extremely arrogant remark.

[tbrick18]

Quote from Tbrick18:

What I did say is that both armagh and tyrone failed to do what they set out to do and that this will erode their mental strength and the longer that goes on the worse that will get

So if Tyrone and Armagh failed to achieve their objectives this year, the same can be said of Derry and Monaghan.  Surely they would have been aiming for the Anglo Celt, but didn't achieve that.

You can only judge a team by what is available on the panel and by results. Saying Tyrone would be a different team with everyone fit....sure derry could say the same. So could Monaghan

What?  Who have Derry or Monaghan missing that is equal to Steven O'Neill (2005 Player of the Year), Brian McGuigan (Top No.11 in the Country) and Brian Dooher (The Hoover - say no more)?

Absolutely right...Derry didnt achieve all thier objectives...namely an Ulster. The did manage to stay in the top tier of the league. They also made some very positive steps when accounting for 3 of the top sides in the country through the qualifiers, Armagh, Mayo and Laois. They then showed against Dublin that with a bit more composure and beleif they could even have gone further.
The difference between the Derry and tyrone year is that Derry eventually by far exceeded everyones expectations (including their own I would think) whereas Tyrone flattered to deceive. One good performance against what turned out to be a poor Donegal side and a far from convincing Ulster title win before collapsing against Meath. This year would have been considered very disappointing from the players and management point of view.

I've already replied about the O'Neill and McGuigan missing and the same applies to Dooher.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Absolutely right...Derry didnt achieve all thier objectives...namely an Ulster. The did manage to stay in the top tier of the league. They also made some very positive steps when accounting for 3 of the top sides in the country through the qualifiers, Armagh, Mayo and Laois. They then showed against Dublin that with a bit more composure and beleif they could even have gone further.
The difference between the Derry and tyrone year is that Derry eventually by far exceeded everyones expectations (including their own I would think) whereas Tyrone flattered to deceive. One good performance against what turned out to be a poor Donegal side and a far from convincing Ulster title win before collapsing against Meath. This year would have been considered very disappointing from the players and management point of view.

I've already replied about the O'Neill and McGuigan missing and the same applies to Dooher.

Ultimately only a fool would try and play down the loss of the likes of McGuigan, O' Neill and Dooher. No team in the country could sustain the loss of players of that calibre and not suffer a dip in performance, I cant believe some of the comparisons people are making with injured players from other counties Tyrone failed to deal with it and as such have no cause for complaint but to talk the injuries down and make comparisons with Derry, Monaghan and Donegal is laughable.
As for Tyrone seeing at as a very disappointing season and talking of a "far from convincing" Ulster title win thats nonsense too, Tyrone actually did well to win the provinicial title in the circumstances and I fail to see how hammering the National League champions (who hadnt lost a game in league or championship to that point) and beating a Monaghan side  - who have since showed their abilities - was "far from convincing". Derry and Monaghan would have loved to win such unconvincing provincial titles
Going by your post the biggest difference between Derry and Tyrone is that Tyrone see an AI quarter final as failure whereas Derry are delighted with it.

[screenexile]

Going by your post the biggest difference between Derry and Tyrone is that Tyrone see an AI quarter final as failure whereas Derry are delighted with it.

Not too many Derry supporters 'delighted' on Saturday evening or since I can tell you. Personally I was gutted but at least we showed some of our undoubted potential which helps to ease the disappointment. It'll be a different story next year

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Derry were missing Kevin  Mcguckian for the whole championship up until the dublin game where he was not match fit.
We were missing Joe Diver through injury.
Kevin McCloy carrying a finger injury.
These 3 players are as important for Derry as McGuigan and O'Neill are for Tyrone.
Now as for McGuigan being the best play maker in the country...he was a couple of years ago. But lets face it, due to injury he cant be counted as that any more and may never reach those heights again due to the nature of his injury. Very disappointing as he was fantastic to watch.
The same can be said of stephen o'neill, though I'd say he could well make a return to form in the future as his injuries are more conventional and could well be healed.

At the risk of appearing "extremely arrogant" again, Diver, Mc Cloy & Mc Guckin may be as important to Derry as Dooher, Mc Guigan and O'Neill are for Tyrone... but it's all relative. What has this Derry team won of note lately? Our lads (in that team) are proven winners, that's the critical difference. And your "let's face it due to injury"... exactly!

[rrhf]

Mark my words - a highly new look Tyrone tem will win the National league next year.  This will be Hartes own handpicked team and not the one passed on from Art and Eugene. 

[orangeman]

Why do you say that Tyrone will win the national league next year ? Surely it cost Donegal in that they thuoght they were the greatest thing since sliced bread ? Would Tyrone not be best concentrating on championship next year ? Jesus but it seems a long way away !!

[orangeman]

Who will this "new look" Tyrone team consist of ?

[ONeill]

A few Hetheringtons, Cushes and Mulgrews.

[GPA not OK]

Mark my words - a highly new look Tyrone tem will win the National league next year.  This will be Hartes own handpicked team and not the one passed on from Art and Eugene. 

Don't be such a tube - that is without doubt the most stupid comment I've ever read on the board.

This team was not inherited from Art & Eugene. Harte has been in the job for 5 years. One of the longest in the business. He took most of these players through from his underage mgt days, so they are most certainly his own players.

Tyrone's demise is for three main reasons.

1. They got rid of Paddy Tally. Their win in 2005 was while they were still using his techniques. They haven't been a force since.
2. They have suffered terribly from injuries.
3. The remaining players haven't got the hunger.

Your stupid comment is made all the more stupid with your use of the term "Mark my words" as if you are some kind of an expert, when in fact, you are clearly talking rubbish.

[orangeman]

Hetheringtons, Cushes, Mulgrews Donaghmore ?

[Bensars]

Mark my words - a highly new look Tyrone tem will win the National league next year.  This will be Hartes own handpicked team and not the one passed on from Art and Eugene. 

As oppossed to a team not handpicked by mickey harte at the minute ??

Mark my words, we'll be nowhere near

[nrico2006]

Quote from screenexile:

Not too many Derry supporters 'delighted' on Saturday evening or since I can tell you. Personally I was gutted but at least we showed some of our undoubted potential which helps to ease the disappointment. It'll be a different story next year

It'll be a different story next year - how long have we been hearing that?  It's not like Derry are some new team on the block.  Beat an old Armagh side missing key players (Bellew, Clarke, Mallon), a transitional Mayo side and an average Laois side.  That was after being run close by the migthy Tommy Murphy Cup finalists and losing to Monaghan.  Potential??