Another GAA-insider's view on the Maze Stadium

[snatter]

Spending £30 -35m is not going to bring Casement up to the minimum GAA standard for a main prov. venue.

I thought the provincial venue was Clones?

It is now. In the future that may (hopefully) change.

No doubt, by now you're fully aware of the GAA's strategic review and its requirements to develop one high quality 40k + capacity stadium in Ulster, at least two thirds seated and covered.

The GAA's strategic requirements were listed in the SIB report - you can read  them there if you wish.

There is a realisation that Clones is not the best location for Ulster GAA as a whole. The ideal location would be Dungannon-ish, but the Maze, a relatively short motorway drive from Dungannon, is an acceptable compromise. You only have to read a map to see.

The Maze looks to be the best option of the lot for the GAA,

On what basis?

1. location - geographic, perceived neutrality - read above
2. no capital outlay - read above.

Ulster Rugby are agreeable,

Says who?

Ulster rugby. No doubt you've read their recent statement to that effect.

[SammyG]

1. location - geographic, perceived neutrality - read above

A field in the middle of nowehere with no facitilities or access and a perception of neutrality, depite all the red white and blue kerbstones and flegs. Good to see that your logic is as sound as ever.

2. no capital outlay - read above.

Ignoring the fact that the capital outlay will be paid by tax-payers who will also be GAA members and the £750K a year rent. Very convenient.

Ulster Rugby are agreeable,

Says who?

Ulster rugby. No doubt you've read their recent statement to that effect.

Oh FFS here we go again. Ulster Rugby have said they are staying at Ravenhill and have already started upgrading it. They said they'd prefer a second Belfast stadium for larger matches but if the Maze is built they will use it if required. Hardly anybodys definition of 'agreeable'.

[Main Street]

I thought the provincial venue was Clones?

The report is about Casement not Clones.
It would certainly be an enlightening futuristic plan if the report commisioned by HM Gov considered Clones

£750,000 pa rent, say for 4 games  is not too bad.

GAA can charge seat ticket prices, GAA fans will be seated and covered.

If Ulster GAA had to borrow £35m to upgrade elsewhere, the interest alone would be a multiple of the rent figure.

[mikerob]

Oh FFS here we go again. Ulster Rugby have said they are staying at Ravenhill and have already started upgrading it. They said they'd prefer a second Belfast stadium for larger matches but if the Maze is built they will use it if required. Hardly anybodys definition of 'agreeable'.

Most recent statement from Ulster Rugby is here

The UB/IRFU's minimum commitment to the stadium was 3 x European Cup games annually and an Autumn International every other year.

In my view they are hedging their bets (quite sensibly) as the Magners League inter-pro games against Munster and Leinster also sell-out Ravenhill, so if the finances work for European Cup games at a new stadium, then they'll switch the other Ravenhill sell-out games there as well.

[snatter]

1. location - geographic, perceived neutrality - read above

A field in the middle of nowehere with no facitilities or access and a perception of neutrality, depite all the red white and blue kerbstones and flegs. Good to see that your logic is as sound as ever.

2. no capital outlay - read above.

Ignoring the fact that the capital outlay will be paid by tax-payers who will also be GAA members and the £750K a year rent. Very convenient.

Ulster Rugby are agreeable,

Says who?

Ulster rugby. No doubt you've read their recent statement to that effect.

Oh FFS here we go again. Ulster Rugby have said they are staying at Ravenhill and have already started upgrading it. They said they'd prefer a second Belfast stadium for larger matches but if the Maze is built they will use it if required. Hardly anybodys definition of 'agreeable'.

"Ignoring the fact that the capital outlay will be paid by tax-payers who will also be GAA members".

Quite frankly, who cares - it will make a nice change from the IFA getting a shiny new stand from taxpayers while we got nothing.
You guys don't squel too much about taxpayers money when you're demanding it.

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"and the £750K a year rent" ?

Have you any proof for that Sammy?
I've read the SIB document, and I can't find any mention of it, either directly or obliquely.

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Who cares about the "red white and blue kerbstones " in some neighbouring village?
We'll have a clear secure neutral route to the stadium from the motorway. If we don't, we won't sign up.
No doubt you've read my legion of replies to you about how neutrality is more of a perception than a quantifiable thing.

Interstingly, if you've read the SIB report, you would find that they, the CRC and SCNI all agree with me.

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Ulster rugby say that they will use ravenhill and the Maze when appropriate. According to them, "the Maze Stadium is the only option on the table and therefore we are focusing all our efforts into the Maze Stadium." REgarding capacity, they say "the design team have proposed that the bottom tier of the stadium will hold 19/20 thousand supporters. This is an acceptable solution to Ulster Rugby as we feel a capacity of 19-20 thousand will provide a great atmosphere"

[snatter]

Oh FFS here we go again. Ulster Rugby have said they are staying at Ravenhill and have already started upgrading it. They said they'd prefer a second Belfast stadium for larger matches but if the Maze is built they will use it if required. Hardly anybodys definition of 'agreeable'.

Most recent statement from Ulster Rugby is here

The UB/IRFU's minimum commitment to the stadium was 3 x European Cup games annually and an Autumn International every other year.

In my view they are hedging their bets (quite sensibly) as the Magners League inter-pro games against Munster and Leinster also sell-out Ravenhill, so if the finances work for European Cup games at a new stadium, then they'll switch the other Ravenhill sell-out games there as well.

Mike,

the SIB usage assumptions were by their own admission very much on the cautious side.

On the basis of the 2005 attendance figures I published in an ealrier thread, I would ahve expected the GAA to use the Maze between 5 and possibly 7 occassions.

Its alos interesting that the base rent model is what the GAA themselves have gone with when renting out Croker to the IRFU and FAI.

[Main Street]

Most recent statement from Ulster Rugby is here

If you want Sammy to accept facts you have to present them with a hammer and chisel.

[SammyG]

I thought the provincial venue was Clones?

The report is about Casement not Clones.
It would certainly be an enlightening futuristic plan if the report commisioned by HM Gov considered Clones

I didn't say it should consider Clones, I was replying to snatters post about the Ulster provincial stadium

£750,000 pa rent, say for 4 games  is not too bad.

GAA can charge seat ticket prices, GAA fans will be seated and covered.

So the GAA will be happy to pay approx £175K per match plus VAT, instead of the current situation where they pay no rent and keep the VAT. Hardly a sound business case.

[SammyG]

"Ignoring the fact that the capital outlay will be paid by tax-payers who will also be GAA members".

Quite frankly, who cares - it will make a nice change from the IFA getting a shiny new stand from taxpayers while we got nothing.
You guys don't squel too much about taxpayers money when you're demanding it.

More lies and bollix.

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"and the £750K a year rent" ?

Have you any proof for that Sammy?

I've read the SIB document, and I can't find any mention of it, either directly or obliquely.

It was the figures given by the SIB, when asked what the report meant in cash terms, as detailed about a dozen or more times, already.


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Who cares about the "red white and blue kerbstones " in some neighbouring village?
We'll have a clear secure neutral route to the stadium from the motorway. If we don't, we won't sign up.

Who is going to build this route, where are the plans for it and who's going to pay for it? If it's true then I'll happily sign up to the Maze, but neither the NI Roads Service or the SIB or the Maze Development Panel have ever mentioned it.

No doubt you've read my legion of replies to you about how neutrality is more of a perception than a quantifiable thing.

In other words any oul bollix you want to spout.

Interstingly, if you've read the SIB report, you would find that they, the CRC and SCNI all agree with me.

Err no they agree with themselves, they were hardly going to write a report that didn't agree with their position.

[stiffler]

Sammy where do you want northern Ireland play their home games whenever Windsor is excluded from hosting international games in the not so distant future? It seems inevitable that they are going to have to play games outside of this island.

[SammyG]

Sammy where do you want northern Ireland play their home games whenever Windsor is excluded from hosting international games in the not so distant future? It seems inevitable that they are going to have to play games outside of this island.

Absolutely nothing to do with this topic, as any new stadium won't be ready for 5 or 6 years at least and I can't see it ever coming to that, but if it happens then I'd go for either Swansea or Kilmarnock. Nice wee stadiums and (relatively) easy for the travelling supporters to get to.

[stiffler]

I thought the new stadium was promised games for the London Olympics, which is due to commence in just under 5 years.

[SammyG]

I thought the new stadium was promised games for the London Olympics, which is due to commence in just under 5 years.

You thought wrong. Mr Poots announced that the new stadium would have some Olympic matches, it was then pointed out that

a) He was talking bollix and the BOC had made no such promise and
b) Olympic matches only attract crowds of 5 - 7K and would be lost at the Maze but could be accomodated at WP, as was originally invisaged by the BOC (Details at http://main.london2012.com/en/news/press+room/releases/2004/january/2004-01-16-14-55.htm)

[snatter]

Most recent statement from Ulster Rugby is here

If you want Sammy to accept facts you have to present them with a hammer and chisel.

what for the lobotomy? or has somebody beat me to it already?

[Main Street]

So the GAA will be happy to pay approx £175K per match plus VAT, instead of the current situation where they pay no rent and keep the VAT. Hardly a sound business case.

Sound business sense is usually associated with the GAA. The GAA are going to upgrade one major facility in each province. That is the plan, the GAA is not static or going backwards, they have concrete plans for their future.
Yes, paying 175k a rent from a match income of £1m? sure beats paying £2m - £3m p/a interest for a bank loan on an upgraded facility which would still not meet the needs as stated in the GAA plans and would not generate the same amount of income.