Author Topic: You're All British in the North Now!!  (Read 6584 times)

Fionntamhnach

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2019, 06:28:49 PM »
Fair 'nuff. My point is that trying to legislate on how to accommodate such aspiration or obligation in the spirit of the GFA throws up potential issues concerning international diplomacy and citizenship beyond Irish-British relations, with the 19th Amendment being an example. At best, successive British governments may have felt that amendments to nationality legislation within the UK wasn't needed to meet the aims mentioned in the GFA. At worst, they were being deliberately or even mendaciously neglegent. Given current political shenanigans in Westminster, it would take a brave MP to try and introduce such measures to remedy this at this time, as I can't see the current government and home secretary doing so.

I think we are broadly in agreement then. Although I welcome Simon Conveys comments about raising the issue with the UK

Speaking solely for myself, it's sad that it's somehow refreshing to have a civil, open & informative discussion on an issue like this where the technical and broader issues are also looked upon.
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Main Street

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2019, 12:48:45 PM »
just for clarity, people on here seem to think the GFA stops at saying we can idientofy as British, Irish or both so here is the actual wording

Quote
recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

So, not only can you identify as Irish you are also entitled to Irish citizenship.

Is that not contrary to the De Souza outcomes yesterday?
It is puzzling that people thought the GFA changed anything re a NI person's birthright to be a dual citizen. This matter was discussed ad nauseum in the FIFA eligibility thread.
De Souza did not have even have a just legal basis for a challenge. The GFA did not change British or irish nationality law.

It is the Irish constitution (not British nationality law)  which gives most everybody born on the Island the automatic right to Irish  citizenship. It is the British nationality law which endows most everybody born in the 6 counties the right to be a british citizen. It is a legal babtism of British nationality. As long as a NI born resides in the UK,  that person resides as a British citizen by default unless the person resigns their Brit citizenship.  The GFA never attempted to change that basic legal concept of British nationality. I have commented many times that Nordie nationalist are British nationals  by default  and need to rinse themselves of that stain by following a due process. The GFA did not do that rinsing.

 

David McKeown

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2019, 04:56:40 PM »
just for clarity, people on here seem to think the GFA stops at saying we can idientofy as British, Irish or both so here is the actual wording

Quote
recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

So, not only can you identify as Irish you are also entitled to Irish citizenship.

Is that not contrary to the De Souza outcomes yesterday?
It is puzzling that people thought the GFA changed anything re a NI person's birthright to be a dual citizen. This matter was discussed ad nauseum in the FIFA eligibility thread.
De Souza did not have even have a just legal basis for a challenge. The GFA did not change British or irish nationality law.

It is the Irish constitution (not British nationality law)  which gives most everybody born on the Island the automatic right to Irish  citizenship. It is the British nationality law which endows most everybody born in the 6 counties the right to be a british citizen. It is a legal babtism of British nationality. As long as a NI born resides in the UK,  that person resides as a British citizen by default unless the person resigns their Brit citizenship.  The GFA never attempted to change that basic legal concept of British nationality. I have commented many times that Nordie nationalist are British nationals  by default  and need to rinse themselves of that stain by following a due process. The GFA did not do that rinsing.

 

Indeed but it still begs the question what was the intention of it?  It was clearly intended to do something but what that is I’ve no idea.

Main Street

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2020, 06:58:15 PM »
Good news in that Emma de Souza has won a personal victory in her battle with the Bitish Gov,
https://www.thejournal.ie/emma-de-souza-northern-ireland-irish-british-immigration-5099038-May2020/

that British and Irish citizens born in the North will be treated as EU citizens for certain immigration purposes, meaning that the spouses of these people who are born outside the EU can apply for a residence permit to stay in the UK post-Brexit.
but there is a but.
 these changes are time-limited, from August 24th until the end of the UK’s post-Brexit transition period.


Why the time restriction?
 I have said this before that the British nationality act only endows British nationality to NI born at birth.  British nationality is the default nationality at birth even if NI born also happen to be Irish citizens at birth, in effect dual nationals at birth.

From the British perspective, the GFA just recognises a right for a NI born to identify themselves as Irish only, but that person’s default nationality is still British.
The GFA  does not say that the British state recognises all NI born to be dual nationals.
The British state is not compelled to uphold the rights that your irish citizenship endows.
as it has to  with your British nationality.

 The Dual nationaity at birth is important riight of course  but as long as a Nordie doesn't spend the GBP 140 to give up their british nationality, their primary de facto nationality in the UK is their British nationality.


In simple terms, a NI born footballers british nationality allows him/her to play for the IFA
The same footballers Irish nationality allows them to play for the FAI.


 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 07:02:32 PM by Main Street »

BennyCake

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2020, 07:16:14 PM »
So what happens when Brexit is sorted? Does Emma go back to being a Brit?

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2020, 01:05:52 AM »
She did a media thing with Jim Wells, who during the week said if she wants to be Irish she can move south, and he said

  "There's no point quoting the Belfast Agreement to me, we've never accepted it".

Its 20focking20

BennyCake

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2020, 09:30:22 AM »
And if there was a United Ireland in the morning, would Wells be an Irish citizen whether he liked it or not?

Rossfan

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Re: You're All British in the North Now!!
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
He'd be entitled to be just as he is now.
He's some bigoted c**t though.
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