Where,What,How for the GAA in Down?

[johnneycool]

I'd like to see a route/branch analysis of the structures in Down with the juvenile structures/competitions looked at first. This should include the interworking of the fulltime coaches, schools and clubs all dovetailing into a well defined package providing youngsters with regular coaching and games throughtout the school year and summer months. This is where the soccer setup is much better and we need to start getting to grips with it especially in areas like Newcastle, Newry and Downpatrick before we loose even more ground.

Then we need to do something similar with the adult structures for both codes.

[Pull Hard Hes No Relation]

I agree with JohnnyCool don't think people realise just how bad things are for the GAA in towns such as Newry and yet it seems that the County Board have their eyes closed to what is happening. Biggest urban centre in the county, almost totally "nationalist" and hence should be regarded as fertile ground for the GAA and yet not one team in Division 1 in the football and one hurling team that would fold but for the efforts of one or two individuals.
Don't know what football coaching is happening in the schools but about the only hurling coaching is being driven by the Newry Hurling club with guys taking days off work to go into schools on a Friday and provide coaching. Granted that appraoch seems to be working as there are now about 30 U12/10s hurling on a Saturday morning in Newry now compared to about a dozen 18 months ago.
I think that we shoudl look at twinning some of the non-ards clubs with ards clubs as a first step to try and share the expertise within the Ards clubs certainly for hurling, we should then have a dedicated hurling coach for the Newry/Warrenpoint and Banbridge area along with one for Bredagh/Carryduff and the Ards - this is where the real populations and hence potential for the game lies along with the fact that we need to ensure that hurling remains the no1 sport in the Ards. IMO we are too lax about Ards hurling, people beleive it will always be strong and that we only need to focus on the non Ards and everything will be okay, rubbish - the Ards are the strong point of hurling in the county and need to be made stronger while at the same time improving standards in the rest of the county. We need a root and branch review of hurling in the county, we have 11 clubs playing hurling but if this increased to 18 would hurling be any stronger at adult level or would seperate juvenile teams but amalgamted senior teams to create 6/7 senior hurling clubs be better for the game. Remember that in Cork for years the 3 city clubs dominated then the divisional sides started to win county championship and eventutally after 10-15 years these divisional sides started to produce senior club sides in their own right but it took time. If it works in Cork and counties like that why not try it in Down, three senior clubs will never get us anywhere and with all the best will in the world no current non-ards club on their own is near senior level and won't be for the next 10 years at least. 

[Pull Hard Hes No Relation]

Crossey is Five Times but where is the output? This has been discussed by hurling people in the county before, we have full time staff but no-one seems to know who or what they are answerable for and what objectives if any they have been set. In fairness to Paddy Branniff he is doing his best but at that man's age there should be others stepping up to the plate. the recent debacle with the U16 elite hurling camp said it all, the kids from the Ards didn't even know they had been selected until the Thursday night before they were due to go on a three day residential!
I'll pose a simple question is non Ards hurling stronger than it was 15-20 years ago?
Kilkeel - where Intermediate champions and one of the strongest non Ards teams (Folded)
Ballyvarley - no where near as strong as they were
Newry - Improved slightly possibly, certainly from 5-10 years ago but still a long way to go.
Warrenpoint - have improved at juvenile but no sign of breakthrough at senior yet
Ballea - great facilities but struggling to field
Kilclief - hurling is dying there if their performances this year are anything to go by
Downpatrick - Folded
Darragh Cross - Folded
Clonduff - making a comeback but far stronger 10 years ago and still only Junior
Liatriom - 10 years ago were playing senior league and actually beat Portaferry I think in a senior league game. Some good young hurlers but at par with where they were at best and still relying on Jerome, Brian and John as mainstays of the team.
Castlewellan - gone backwards at senior level without a doubt.
Bredagh - the one success story of hurling in the county but the driving force in this club have been North Antrim and Ards men who have moved to the area rather than any actions taken by the county board.

None of the teams above will make "senior" in the next ten years at least but they all have good hurlers just not enough of them and these guys don't get the chance to develop as they play in Junior and 2nds leagues, some drastic action needs to be taken to revive hurling and that includes thinking outside the box and looking at the possibility of joining teams at senior level to try and raise the overall standard of matches in the county. We have full time staff but my question again is what are the outputs and where is the improvement where it is needed most.

[johnneycool]

Did I read somewhere that Tyrone have twinned with Waterford, with hurling coaches going up to Tyrone and football coaches going the other way?

Maybe Down should be twinning with Kilkenny!!

[orangeman]

Tyrone have indeed teamed up with Waterford for the hurling coaching and vice versa - it's a brilliant idea

[Pull Hard Hes No Relation]

JohnnyCool, there was talk about Down twinning with Kilkenny from a hurling development point of view and in fairness to Kilkenny they sent a couple of coaches up last year to take a session and it was great and should have been built upon. I have a copy of a coaching manual the Kilkenny hurling development committee put together and sent to all clubs in Kilkenny when you see the content and the thought that went into it you would not be surprised by Kilkenny's recent underage success. Kilkenny county board actually offered Down places at the DJ Carey school of hurling and are keen to work on the links and help and instead of "taking their hand off" at the offer the Down board is stalling on the issue.
Some of the clubs are doing their own thing as well trying to build links with clubs down south, it seems that Ballycran have an arrangement with Carrickshock assuming that is via Dutch while Newry have had the advantage of building links with Cloyne via Donal Og and Diarmuid who are due up before the end of the year again.
The meetings the clubs had themselves last year with Frankie Quinn need to be orgainsed again, more progress made then than in 15 yrs of the hurling board!

[johnneycool]

The sale of Newcastle will get us money but who'll hold the purse strings now that Hugh Harper is stepping down?This position should in future be answerable to a wide membered finance committee voted in by nominations from throughout the County not from County Board delegates who generally are happy enough to go every 3-4 weeks to talk shop.The Finance Committee should be answerable to the Executive of the County Board but be voted in by the Clubs.

The revenue created by the sale of newcastle IF it happens will need to be tighly monitored and spent wisely, something our county board are not good at as we've seen in the past. I'd agree with the setting up of two committee's, a developement committee with members from all over the county, south down, east down, the ards and Belfast and north down. That way you'll get a better feel for the needs of the whole county rather than the perceived south down bias that has been in existence for a few years. This committee should set out a wish list of what is required both in terms of immediate infrastructure, i.e training facilities etc, etc, as well as looking at the juvenile and senior set ups we currently have.

The finance committee should ideally have people on board who are trustworthy and probably from a business or finance background and most importantly transparent in their dealings, something the GAA world isn't comfortable with. We got to move on from handing out one or two A4 pages of a financial statement at the county convention and then taking it back off the delegates.

[thewobbler]

I'm not trying to champion the County Board, but I do believe this argument needs a little balance.

All the ideas above are great in theory. But, when it comes down to it, there aren't that many qualified, experienced financial practicioners around who have the inclination or interest to give their time freely to Down football and hurling. Certainly not enough to form a committee, let alone an effective committee.

You can gather any opinion you like on Hugh John Harper, Tony Burden and co., but trust me when I say they would welcome with open arms any trustworthy, professional support they could get when it comes to finances.

Second point - the finance committee may be selected by the Board, but is effectively voted in by the clubs.The clubs vote in board members, and if any of those board members have an expressed interest in financial matters, it really won't take long for them to be noticed and called on board. But, as with my initial point, there aren't a lot of qualified, or even interested, parties putting themselves forward.

[johnneycool]

Second point - the finance committee may be selected by the Board, but is effectively voted in by the clubs.The clubs vote in board members, and if any of those board members have an expressed interest in financial matters, it really won't take long for them to be noticed and called on board. But, as with my initial point, there aren't a lot of qualified, or even interested, parties putting themselves forward.

You've got to ask yourself why more genuine people don't get involved and I believe a large part of that is that they wouldn't get involved because of the way the county board do business. The finances need to above board and transparent at all times and this isn't the case at present or if it is why the secrecy? The county board obviously employ an accountancy firm (or do they???) to look after their books, so why not publish their reports at the convention rather than the shambolic crap that they do.
We as a county need to be more professional in the way we are organised and do business, so its a bit chicken and egg at the start. If the current board show a willingness to change the way they do things more people will be inclined to get involved but we need that kick start from somewhere and maybe if it isn't the county board itself the clubs need to shake it up a bit.

Then you have the other side of the debate, do the clubs actually give a crap how the county teams perform providing they win their own league/championship or whatever?

[downgael]

Clubs in the past have been asked to forward names for the various sub committees within Down (which number over 20) and very few clubs, if any forwarded names.
We do not need new committees, we already have a development committee, we already have a finance committee, we already have a coaching and games committee, etc
what we need is new people on these committees. It is easy to criticise the people sitting on these committees at present, but if we know people that would improve the workings of the committees put the name forward to either your club secretary or inform the county secretary, and get them in

[thewobbler]

wobbller - if you sacked the county board and started again, you'd have no county board. Nobody wants to do it. I bet you cannot name one person (including yourself) who has ever told you they wanted to join the county board - let alone one of the qualified, intelligent, experienced type you so desire.

And the funny thing is, this isn't sport, it's administration. You can get involved at the drop of a hat with no qualifications, no expertise and no experience and no noticeable skills. So go on, get involved. If you're willing to share the workload, you'll be welcome. So why don't you put yourself forward?

[Pangurban]

While reading these comments about the lack of financial transparency from the the co board, pots and kettles spring to mind. Al these delegates come from Clubs where there is a clear lack of financial transparency in one specific area ie are their team managers being paid or receiving allowances over or above what is permitted. I have never seen a treasurers report which listed such a payment, yet there is a widely held perception that such payments are being made. Such a perception may be wrong, just as the perception about lack of transparency in co.boards finances may be wrong. In both cases evidence is required before charges can be made,and this is at the moment sadly lacking. Would you accept a position on a finance committee, which could lead to you being unfairly maligned. No wonder there is a lack of volunteers

[Hardy]

According to today's Irish Times, the monthly meeting of the Down County Committee has reappointed Ross Carr as Down football manager "for a second term". Presumably this means a year.

[Leo]

Ok we have had Club Down and we have a fine stadium. How about a similar fundraiser to help fund the county teams. Say 1000 people to give £100, £200, £500, £1000 or whatever way they want to contribute. I know they do something like this in Westmeath.
[/quote]

Whern Club Down was started I heard more grumbles from club officers in the county than enough but they stuck tot heir task of finsihing Park Esler and they never approached the clubs for one penny to do it. I havent seen any clubs recognising this but no doubt they got their taickets and comfy seats for the recent games in Newry.
The county board would have been lost without them and what do they do? They set up another fund-raisng group ( for the team) and go off on solo runs with other attempts at raising money. I work for a Club Down sponsor and he was approached by four separate people this year looking for more money for the county for dufferent projects. When he related this to Club Down the committee member he was talking to didn'teven knoiw about the other schemes as they hadnt nbeen told. Pathetic - we have a group who have delivered on their word when all previous attempts failed and the county board and clubs dont even want them. This is Down GAA at its best.

[orangeman]

Times will change - you just have to wait for it. What about getting Martin Clarke back and pay him a decent salary for a decent job - it should reap rewards in future years as well as the present.