What now for Armagh?

[corn02]

Datsun I have an image of you as one of these boys who sits listening to the "Joe Kernan is the king!" of King CDs, you have to look further than the romantic image of Big Joe that the media have served up. He brought us a Sam Maguire and I am forever grateful but does that mean he should call the shots for as long as he wants.

I would love Grimley and I would think the Armagh players would be the same, sadly the wee shits in the County board will just do as Joe says.

[twotwocharlie]

anyone got access to a ticket for dublin game tomorrow

[lawnseed 2]

totally agree corn. joe knows if he hangs around for a bit things will get better. derrys trashing of mayo is just the trump card hes been looking for, and you are right the county board will give him what ever he wants and at this moment what he needs is TIME armagh clubs are very easily lead nobody wants to come across as not being in support of the county team. joe knows that there is no way stephen kernan would make the team if he wasnt around. also his high profile as county manager isnt doing his business any harm either. but as im on record as saying joes lack of confidence in the young players including the ones mentioned above cannot be hidden even his body language toward them isnt right. btw an example of easily lead-- no other county in ireland hits their clubs as hard for money as armagh. regardless of size of club its one bill for all and nobody objects because they are afraid of being singled out

[twotwocharlie]

spot on lawn 2500 ( donation for training from every club)

[armawman]

Re Armamike's comment "It's always been a bit of a sore point with me that the 2 Brians never really got the recognition they deserved for putting together the blueprint of the team that went on to success at all-ireland level".

Absolutely spot on. The 2 Brians deserve huge praise. They built the team, instilled discipline and laid excellent foundations. Your comment that if Clarke had been around in 2000, then that may have been all that was needed, is also spot on.

In 2000, Armagh were one point ahead in the All Ireland semi final with time up and Kerry were awarded a free. Maurice Fitzgerald put it over.

In 2002, Armagh were one point ahead in The All Ireland semi final with time up and Dublin were awarded a free. Ray Cosgrove missed.

If Maurice Fitz had missed and Cosgrove scored, who knows? Brian Canavan and Brian McAlinden deserve nothing only praise. Without them, we may never have had so many great days out in Croke Park. 

[Mike Sheehy]

Dont forget that if Eoin Brosnan's shot on goal in 2002 had been a few inches to the right you'd probably have no AI.

These "what if" scenarios can work both ways you know

[Rufus T Firefly]

Dont forget that if Eoin Brosnan's shot on goal in 2002 had been a few inches to the right you'd probably have no AI.

These "what if" scenarios can work both ways you know

As was just pointed out in the previous post Mike! 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Havta disagree with ya on a few points there lawnseed

he was a good motivator but his predessers can claim alot of the credit for his sucesses

The Two Brians deserve a lot of credit for the work they put in and the 2 Ulsters but there's a good chance that had they stayed on Sam 1 might never have come.

so it is fitting that it should end where it started in a game with derry.

I'd say our current era began in ballybofey escaping with a draw after being 7 down after 10 minutes.

as for the young lads its gonna be very tough so far the u21s have only really brought arron k as a shoe in the rest havent really caught the eye.

Brian mallon and Ciaran McKeever are also both established intercounty footballers while there's plenty around the fringes - Swift, Mal Mackin, F Moriarty to name a few.

Agree with the comments on the two Brains - and I was in a position to tell Brian McAlinden that to his face an hour after the final whistle in 2002. Shook his hand, told him he was responsible for a lot of what had just happened and thanked him!

There are a number of dates that can be pointed to as starting the era of this team, and the game in Ballybofey is definitely one that stands out. Another date though that was hugely significant though was in the Athletic Grounds in May 1995. Derry hammered us 1-18 to 0-10, and by the end there were players clearly saving themselves for Club Championship games!    It was clear that a change was needed to the management, and the era of the two Brians was thus born. We went to Celtic Park the following year, and although beat, showed that we were not going to roll over and die. The following year we kicked 18 wides in Omagh and lost by 3 points to a late goal. In 1998 we beat Down in Clones, and had no luck in the semi-final against Derry, going down by 7. Thus when 1999 came around, there was a real feeling that this must be the year to make the breakthrough!

As regards under 21s - don't forget Andy Mallon as well!

[Over the Bar]

Dont forget that if Eoin Brosnan's shot on goal in 2002 had been a few inches to the right you'd probably have no AI

Thats 'cos Brosnan's no Canavan...  threading a ball thru the eye of a needle in a AIF takes a little bit more class 

[Mike Sheehy]

As was just pointed out in the previous post Mike! 

True, but its important not to forget we wuz robbed !!

[Mike Sheehy]

Thats 'cos Brosnan's no Canavan...   

True, he needs to work on his diving technique alright

[Rufus T Firefly]

As was just pointed out in the previous post Mike! 

True, but its important not to forget we wuz robbed !!

In the first half you could have been out of sight alright - but the luck ye got in 2000 deserted ye in 2002 - vica versa for ourselves!

[Mike Sheehy]

Thats 'cos Brosnan's no Canavan...  threading a ball thru the eye of a needle in a AIF takes a little bit more class 

..and he didnt do his primary job today as Monaghan dominated possesion. If they were any way clinical they'd have won

[Datsun Donaghy]

Corn 02

Datsun I have an image of you as one of these boys who sits listening to the "Joe Kernan is the king!" of King CDs, you have to look further than the romantic image of Big Joe that the media have served up. He brought us a Sam Maguire and I am forever grateful but does that mean he should call the shots for as long as he wants.

I would love Grimley and I would think the Armagh players would be the same, sadly the wee shits in the County board will just do as Joe says.

Sorry to have rattled your cage there young Corn - In 2002 Joe was hailed as the High King of Armagh and in 2007 he had 2 games in the Championship and lost them both, so now the bandwagon is calling for the firing squad! It shows how the level of expectation in the county is now up there depleting the Ozone.

My point

I would firmly be in the camp that believes Paul Grimley is the best man for the job when Joe moves, perhaps with Peter Rafferty and Geezer in the fold. A hugely difficult task would be to replace John Mc Cluskey should he move on!

Whatever happens, I think Armagh would be much poorer if they were to lose Joe's experience altogether - the first Director of Football in GAA terms would be appropriate - we can't afford to start again with a new manager who has to learn the inter-county game from scratch or it definitely will be "What now for Armagh ?"

[/i]

is that despite the huge expectation within the county, this is the only time in our history that we have been looked upon as one of the "Big Guns". One era is coming to an end and it does not necessarily fit that it must be followed by a second in the near future. (Think of Down as an obvious example! )

Like yourself, I would love to see Paul Grimley installed as the new manager - I believe that he has played an immense part in Armagh's success' since 2002, however being uncertain, as I am, of how he was allowed to leave the Armagh set-up, I'm not convinced that we will have our wish granted so soon. There in lies the source of my concern - if Joe leaves and is replaced by anyone other than Paul G there will be no continuity and a real chance of a return to the dark old days of one Ulster Final apperance every decade, if we're lucky!
(Think of Down as an obvious example! )

So while the bandwagon is calling for his head - I'll stick with my own plan for a gradual change - moving Joe "upstairs" would allow someone new to come to the fore, with new ideas and new opinions on personnel, whilst at the same time retain Joe's experience and knowhow close at hand - only a fool would want to disregard what he has learned over the years, even if it was just to help prevent making the same mistakes that have already been made!

The obvious retort to the above idea is that Joe will be too big a personality to let someone else steal the limelight and indeed with lots of potential replacements that may be true - but hey - at least we can then be sure that we have got the wrong man for the job!!!

That's hopefully shattered your romantic image of my good self Corn - but at the end of the day it's all about winning and you can never win enough!

[Datsun Donaghy]

• Quote
  Thats 'cos Brosnan's no Canavan...  threading a ball thru the eye of a needle in a AIF takes a little bit more class

..and he didnt do his primary job today as Monaghan dominated possesion. If they were any way clinical they'd have won

I think that you're mixing up your Canavan's with your Cavanagh's this time Mikey