Shoot to Kill 1982

[Evil Genius]

So to cut through the waffle and answer my question, you don't have an opinion on the article then?

As I said, no strong views either way.

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI, so I was just bringing it to the attention of other people who are interested in such matters.

So what about you, rh? Any thoughts on the SA situation? You seems to be interested enough to want to question me, so may I assume you do?

[redhugh]

So to cut through the waffle and answer my question, you don't have an opinion on the article then?

As I said, no strong views either way.

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI, so I was just bringing it to the attention of other people who are interested in such matters.

So what about you, rh? Any thoughts on the SA situation? You seems to be interested enough to want to question me, so may I assume you do?

Do you mean thoughts on the situation in South Africa generally or on this article?

[Evil Genius]

So to cut through the waffle and answer my question, you don't have an opinion on the article then?

As I said, no strong views either way.

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI, so I was just bringing it to the attention of other people who are interested in such matters.

So what about you, rh? Any thoughts on the SA situation? You seems to be interested enough to want to question me, so may I assume you do?

Do you mean thoughts on the situation in South Africa generally or on this article?

The latter ("Shoot The Bastards")

[redhugh]

So to cut through the waffle and answer my question, you don't have an opinion on the article then?

As I said, no strong views either way.

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI, so I was just bringing it to the attention of other people who are interested in such matters.

So what about you, rh? Any thoughts on the SA situation? You seems to be interested enough to want to question me, so may I assume you do?

Do you mean thoughts on the situation in South Africa generally or on this article?

The latter ("Shoot The b**tards")

Absolutely disgusted - police murdering innocent children !? How can you not have strong views on this?Do you find this on some level acceptable?

[Donagh]

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI,

I must be missing something. What comparison?

[Evil Genius]

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI,

I must be missing something. What comparison?

Oh I dunno...

Maybe between:
Northern Ireland - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs were murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order allegedly  authorised a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating,
Versus
South Africa - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs are murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order are publicly  authorising a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating...

No? 

[Evil Genius]

So to cut through the waffle and answer my question, you don't have an opinion on the article then?

As I said, no strong views either way.

However, it offers an interesting comparison to the situation in NI, so I was just bringing it to the attention of other people who are interested in such matters.

So what about you, rh? Any thoughts on the SA situation? You seems to be interested enough to want to question me, so may I assume you do?

Do you mean thoughts on the situation in South Africa generally or on this article?

The latter ("Shoot The b**tards")

Absolutely disgusted - police murdering innocent children !? How can you not have strong views on this?Do you find this on some level acceptable?

As I previously said:
"As for myself, I cannot really justify a 'Shoot-on-Sight' policy on grounds of principle. If nothing else, the danger to innocent bystanders makes it problematical for me"
Consequently, I find the death of an innocent bystander deeply troubling. That said, unless there was evidence of great recklessness etc, I'm not sure that a death in such circumstances could automatically be termed "murder". Is it "murder" for instance, if a 3 y.o. gets knocked down by a police car racing to the scene of a crime, if it was being driven well in excess of the speed limit?

As for my "strong views" etc, maybe I was clumsy in my use of language. What I meant to say was that although I find the incident disturbing, I don't know enough about it specifically, or the crime situation in SA generally, to be in a position to strongly condemn or support the police.

I am open to persuasion either way, following further information though.

[redhugh]

EG - in my own opinion a police force,regardless of where in the world it is,or what the circumstances are,that has an open shoot to kill policy should be roundly condemned and called to task over their actions.I guess we just look at the world very differently.

[Evil Genius]

EG - in my own opinion a police force,regardless of where in the world it is,or what the circumstances are,that has an open shoot to kill policy should be roundly condemned and called to task over their actions.

Fair enough and if I hadn't seen some of the things I did growing up in NI, I might join you in that blanket condemnation.

I guess we just look at the world very differently.

Indeed.

[redhugh]

EG - in my own opinion a police force,regardless of where in the world it is,or what the circumstances are,that has an open shoot to kill policy should be roundly condemned and called to task over their actions.

Fair enough and if I hadn't seen some of the things I did growing up in NI, I might join you in that blanket condemnation.

I guess we just look at the world very differently.

Indeed.

So to an extent you agree with a shoot to kill policy of a police force in a  supposed democratic state?

[Evil Genius]

EG - in my own opinion a police force,regardless of where in the world it is,or what the circumstances are,that has an open shoot to kill policy should be roundly condemned and called to task over their actions.

Fair enough and if I hadn't seen some of the things I did growing up in NI, I might join you in that blanket condemnation.

I guess we just look at the world very differently.

Indeed.

So to an extent you agree with a shoot to kill policy of a police force in a  supposed democratic state?

In principle, no. But in certain circumstances, I wouldn't necessarily rush to condemn it (or at least I wouldn't have any sympathy for the intended targets).

And if that makes me unprincipled, then I guess it must be so.

[Donagh]

Oh I dunno...

Maybe between:
Northern Ireland - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs were murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order allegedly  authorised a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating,
Versus
South Africa - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs are murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order are publicly  authorising a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating...

No? 

You are insinuating there is something to compare in six Armagh murders in 1982 and something that's happening in South Africa at the moment.

In each of these incidents the RUC knowingly shot dead six unarmed men who could have been arrested. You allege this was an attempt to stop violence from escalating when it's obvious to all impartial observers that they were nothing more than revenge/reprisal killings by the state which could only escalate into more violence.

Now what exactly are the similarities with the article you have posted about South Africa?

[redhugh]

Oh I dunno...

Maybe between:
Northern Ireland - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs were murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order allegedly  authorised a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating,
Versus
South Africa - a politically divided society where ruthless gangs are murdering and terrorising the people, so that the forces of Law and Order are publicly  authorising a "Shoot-on-Sight" policy, to try to stop it all from escalating...

No? 

You are insinuating there is something to compare in six Armagh murders in 1982 and something that's happening in South Africa at the moment.

In each of these incidents the RUC knowingly shot dead six unarmed men who could have been arrested. You allege this was an attempt to stop violence from escalating when it's obvious to all impartial observers that they were nothing more than revenge/reprisal killings by the state which could only escalate into more violence.

Now what exactly are the similarities with the article you have posted about South Africa?

Donagh- to be fair to the man he has admitted to being unprincipled i.e; lacking moral scruples , surely this invalidates his opinion on any issues of morality.

[Evil Genius]

You are insinuating there is something to compare in six Armagh murders in 1982 and something that's happening in South Africa at the moment.

In each of these incidents the RUC knowingly shot dead six unarmed men who could have been arrested. You allege this was an attempt to stop violence from escalating when it's obvious to all impartial observers that they were nothing more than revenge/reprisal killings by the state which could only escalate into more violence.

Now what exactly are the similarities with the article you have posted about South Africa?

I was not referring to six individual cases in NI, rather, I was referring to the (former) general situation in NI and the (present) general situation in SA, that's all.

In each of these incidents the RUC knowingly shot dead six unarmed men who could have been arrested. You allege this was an attempt to stop violence from escalating when it's obvious to all impartial observers that they were nothing more than revenge/reprisal killings by the state which could only escalate into more violence.

That is how you characterise it, I would do so differently.

Now what exactly are the similarities with the article you have posted about South Africa?

I suspect it is your closeness to the situation in NI which is preventing you from "seeing the wood for the trees". Of course there are many differences between NI and SA; however, on this particular topic there may also be said to be certain parallels.
At least, that's my opinion; or is this another* instance where other people are not allowed to deviate from the Party Line, as determined by Donagh? 

* - Derry Priests leaving the Church to marry being just the latest one...

[Evil Genius]

Donagh- to be fair to the man he has admitted to being unprincipled i.e; lacking moral scruples , surely this invalidates his opinion on any issues of morality.

Wow. You try to be open and honest, then you get misrepresented like that. I don't think I'll make that mistake again!

Anyhow for the record, all I was trying to get across is that I have mixed feelings on this matter.

To take a topical analogy, it's a bit like Capital Punishment: my head tells me that that is wrong, but when I see child killers and rapists etc, my heart says "String 'Em Up".