Armagh v Derry Official Thread

[DWAL]

id go with

Gillis
Lockhart
Mc Cloy
Mc Goldrick
O Kane
??
Hinphy
Diver
Doc
Murphy
Gilligan
Muldoon
Devlin
Bradley

Springfield, thank god you are not manager. Armagh are hard enough to bate with 15 players, never mind 13.

[fcuksake]

I think Seany is starting top of the right for Derry

[gwan-ye-boy-ya]

listen.... derry hav'nt a hope against the orchard men..

[armawman]

Paul Hearty is a superb goalkeeper. Anyone criticising him for the goal against Donegal should remember that in The Ulster Final last year against Donegal, he made a great save from Stephen McDermott in the last few minutes. If that goal had gone in, Donegal would have been level.

Its interesting that very few pundits drew any similarities between Armagh v Donegal this year and last year's Ulster Final. A lot of people said after the Ballybofey game that if Ronan Clarke had been playing, Armagh would have scored a lot more. But they scored 1 - 8 in Ballybofey and 1 - 9 last year against Donegal and Clarke did play in last year's game.

Armagh's main problem in the last few years is that on occasion they don't score enough. Against Kerry last year they shouldhave scored more in the first half. Against Fermanagh in 2004 they only scored one point from the 46th minute onwards. Against Donegal in the last two years they've only scored 1 - 8 and 1 - 9. In the All - Ireland semi against Tyrone in 2005, they owned the ball in the first half but only scored five points.

They don't score enough on many's an occasion and yet they have good forwards and get lots of possession. Its not the forwards fault as these are good players. The fault appears to lie with the system of play. They keep so many men back to win possession that when they get the ball, there's hardly anyone in their opponents half. 

I would like to see Philip Loughran at full forward to win possession and feed Oisin and Stevie. I'd put Diarmaid at centre half forward and Aaron Kernan at right half forward. I would also have played Paddy McKeever or Peadar Toal but, like Aaron, they are left - footed. So I would probably play Martin O'Rourke at left half forward with Paddy McKeever and Peadar Toal to come on when Diarmaid and Oisin tire. I'd play Charlie Vernon in Aaron's position at half back.

One big problem is that Armagh no longer have a reliable long range ( 50 yards ) free taker. Oisin is the best in the business but he isn't able to take them off the ground any more with his injury and he's not as accurate from the hand, particularly for long range kicks. Stephen Kernan appears to me to be the best option as he can hit fifties and was very accurate from placed balls for the Under 21s. So he may be worth playing at left half forward instead of Martin O'Rourke to kick the long range frees. I thought Stephen did pretty well in Ballybofey - it was his first real start in the senior jersey apart from against Fermanagh last year.

[Blacksheep]

listen.... derry hav'nt a hope against the orchard men..

Aye your rite. Its hardly worth are while even turning up. I think the Sam Maguire should just be given to Armagh now and cut out all the crap in between. Get them an open top bus to parade it round Lurgan and when there at it they could remove some of the unionist flags that are causing all the bother.

[twotwocharlie]

i hear clarke and mallon are flying at training ,maybe just maybe if needed.

[mackers]

Are Clarke and Mallon listed in the subs?

[Loup Bandit]

F.A.O Paddy Crozier - Paddy if you are reading this please move Sean Marty back to corner back to pick up Stevie McDonnell and get Gerard O'Kane out of there. A straight swap perhaps.

id worry about derry's half forward line if they go with the same as last time, they wont get much change out of A Kernan, McGeeney & C McKeever. aaron will have to be stopped from attacking big time!

How about this,if derry are chasing it like they were against monaghan try sumthin as its last chance saloon, even throw big diver into the full forward line with muldoon and have an aerial bombardment! desperate times may call for desperate measures!

[Real Talk]

I'd agree with Loup Bandit and also I would put Paul Murphy in to give us a chance to won the 'dirty ball'.  PC talks about this but does not have any 'broken ball' winners in the panel (except Murphy).  Overall we are just papering over the cracks, Armagh will physically, mentally well prepared for the game but some 'desperate measures' may provide damage limitation

[Uladh]

I'd have McKinney in goals, but thats not a recent opinion. Hearty has been getting away with some bog standard errors for a long time through blind luck and the inconsequential nature of the mistakes. Overall, McKinney is a far superior all round keeper imho. for whoever suggested Hearty souldn't be dropped becase of this one error, McKinney made one error against Derry (nfl 2007) in my memory of him playing for the county and shouldn't have been dropped after the league anyway. I don't see what has changed since last season when he was the number one for the championship only to have to withdraw for personal reasons midway through the ulster campaign.

I would like to see Philip Loughran at full forward to win possession and feed Oisin and Stevie. I'd put Diarmaid at centre half forward and Aaron Kernan at right half forward. I would also have played Paddy McKeever or Peadar Toal but, like Aaron, they are left - footed. So I would probably play Martin O'Rourke at left half forward with Paddy McKeever and Peadar Toal to come on when Diarmaid and Oisin tire. I'd play Charlie Vernon in Aaron's position at half back.

Talking about players operating on particular wings or in particular positions in the forward line is well out of date. there are no wing forwards or corner forwards any more, certainly not in armagh's system of play. players play to a pattern and game plan which will bring them wherever the situation requires them. part of the problem of looking blindly at games and judging players' performances is that we can't know what they're being asked to do for the team. for example, o'rourke is obvously playing in the half back line as tony mc entee or john toal used to, yet people consistently talk about his attacking threat and which wing to pay him on! also, marden has obviously been playing as a second centre half forward with sk despite the number on his back and only he did in ballyboffey armagh wouln't have gotten a ball upfield. people still call for him to play centre half forward.

I thought Stephen did pretty well in Ballybofey - it was his first real start in the senior jersey apart from against Fermanagh last year.

Thats both you and Jarleth burns in agreement then. It's unfair to keep hammering the lad for the father's failings but he's been on the panel 4 years now and got more chances through McKenna cup, national league and championship games than long ignored and more talented footballers such as swift, toal, vernon, loughran, donnelly or o'hare, to name but a few.

[Armamike]

Regardless of what shape Derry are in at the moment, Armagh normally struggle for scores against any opposition, largely due to a lack of support play up front from the half forwards and, as in the case of the Donegal game, just some downright bad misses in front of goal from the full forwards. This means that if the defence has a bad day and make a couple of mistakes (ala Enda McNulty and Francie Bellew against Kerry last year) we are in deep trouble. I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that neither Vernon nor Toal (barring injuries) haven't been given a start in the half forward line for this game. Both of them have the agility to track back and get forward to give support up front. If any of the half forwards are having a quiet day on Sunday they need to be replaced pronto. Kernan has to be a lot more ruthless in his subsitutions.

[Donagh]

McKinney simply doesn't have the height, build or presence of Hearty - things which are even more important now that every other team in the country are finding the biggest fecker they can for FF.   

[Uladh]

Unfortunately Hearty has always been suspect in the air and there is a fair amount of people in the county who'd consider McKinney more reliable under the high ball.

ogs men?

[Donagh]

I've always said he was vulnerable under the high ball – he dropped an awful amount through his hands last few years. But he's a mountain of a man who can fend off all but the biggest and strongest forwards, a good shot stopper with a long accurate kickout. McKinney's was showing up well and was edging into number one before he had to take the time off, but he still hasn't proved it in the heat of summer championship football.

[Smokin Joe]

Kernan has to be a lot more ruthless in his subsitutions.

And what's the reason that Big Joe will see the light all of a sudden this weekend?

It appears that only Armagh posters are realising that we will get it very tough this weekend.  The rest of the country presume it will be a stroll, but I fear they are wrong.

As has been mentioned already on this thread we got 9 scores against Donegal, realistically we aren't going to put many on that this weekend given the style of football we play.

Much as it pains me to say, I think that Derry are a cracking bet with a 3 point head start against us.  Sure I'd like to think we will win but how many scores are we going to need to beat Derry by 3?