Armagh v Derry Official Thread

[thebandit]

Hard luck lads, there were mistakes made on the pitch and on the line, but the fact remains that this unbelieveably dedicated group of players owe us absolutely nothing.

Thanks for all the good days. Still legends, one and all. 

[Goats Do Shave]

The ref gave in time and time again to armagh players and management harrassing him and even in some of todays papers i read the he gave a lot of inexpicable frees to armagh...

The only example of this is when, in the 2nd half, the ref changed his mind & give Derry a free in (which they scored from!). He initially gave the free to Armagh...only for a roar from the 40 Derry Supporters to change his mind!!

[blasmere]

In 3 of the last 4 years the teams that have knocked Armagh out of the championship have went on to win Sam?

What price Derry to do it?

[mackers]

Blasmere, you are more correct than you think you are. The statistic is that since 1999 (with the exception of 2004) any team that put Armagh out of the championship goes on to win the All-Ireland! Put the house on Derry!!

[corn02]

Bar the Keenan incident the referee can not be questioned, for me he was more genourous to us than Derry.

At the stage we are now I think it will actually be better for the suspected players to retire. For 2008 which would you rather? One final effort from the old guard which will probablt come up short or the adaption of the younger players in place of the legends that are leaving? For me a year or two in the backseat is fine by me as long as we start knocking on the door soon, which we will.

[twotwocharlie]

our inability to win breaking ball cost us dear.

[GPA not OK]

Its easy for Armagh people to analyse the game without giving credit to a good Derry performance. They have excellent players in McCloy, McGuckian, Lockhart, Doherty, Muldoon, Bradley, Devlin and have a bit of wickedness about them in the shape of men like McEldowney. If they had a decent manager they'd do well.

When it came to breaking ball we were a bit hopeless. But it really depends on our ability to get the first hand to the kickouts and in that respect Derry were on top. Lavery seemed to give us some impetus when he came on and drove us on in that department to score 4pts without reply.

Derry seemed that bit fitter and hungrier for the dirty ball in the middle third for most of the match and that was the platform for their win.

[tbrick18]

The ref gave in time and time again to armagh players and management harrassing him and even in some of todays papers i read the he gave a lot of inexpicable frees to armagh...

The only example of this is when, in the 2nd half, the ref changed his mind & give Derry a free in (which they scored from!). He initially gave the free to Armagh...only for a roar from the 40 Derry Supporters to change his mind!!

I remember the incident you mention alright, but it was an obvious Derry free, the ineptitude of the ref was show up again though as he pointed the wrong way then caught himself on.
On 2 occassions I sam him give Derry a line ball correctly only for "big" joe and and stevie mcd come running and jumping and shouting at the ref. On taking the line ball the ref promplty blew his whistle and gave a free to armagh for nothing that I could see. Armagh scored a point directly from one of these and indirectly from the second just at the start of the second half.
Also the number of times Aaron kernan got away with fouling and indded was given the free was scandalous. I even read one of the other Armagh poster commenting on this earlier. It seems the referee was too weak to stand up to Armagh crowd and management.
One of the other Armagh poster posed the question why was pat macaneany on the line when he should have reffed the game. I agree completely. It was probably the biggest qualifier match and should have ahad the best referee. Not some week nobody who wanted to make a name for himself.

I think both sides would agree that the ref was awful, from a Derry perspective we felt he favoured Armagh more, but then I'm sure Armagh fans probably feel they were hard done by. Nature of the game.

Armagh will be there or thereabouts next year regardless of whether Kernan and his old guard leave, but as for the enigma that is this Derry side who know what lies ahead. On our day can beat anyone, but we could also get beat by anyone. Here's hoping we get a few more days in the sun anyway.

[Armamike]

Unfortunately Armagh's lack of pace & guile in the forward line has cost us again. However the calls for Charlie Vernon will not improve this part of our team, no matter how good a footballer he is; his game is more about strength!!

Goats it's all about opinions, as we won't get to see him in action this year now, but I'd disagree with you about Vernon. Vernon's strength is a big attribute for a lad his age trying to make the breakthrough at senior level. I watched him in all the U21 games this year and his direct running, breaking from around the middle was great to see.  In the championship game against Cross a few weeks back i thought he was very impressive.  IMO he would have been well worth a try in the Donegal and Derry games - i think he would have offered us a lot more going forward. 

[Goats Do Shave]

Unfortunately Armagh's lack of pace & guile in the forward line has cost us again. However the calls for Charlie Vernon will not improve this part of our team, no matter how good a footballer he is; his game is more about strength!!

Goats it's all about opinions, as we won't get to see him in action this year now, but I'd disagree with you about Vernon. Vernon's strength is a big attribute for a lad his age trying to make the breakthrough at senior level. I watched him in all the U21 games this year and his direct running, breaking from around the middle was great to see.  In the championship game against Cross a few weeks back i thought he was very impressive.  IMO he would have been well worth a try in the Donegal and Derry games - i think he would have offered us a lot more going forward. 

...But then again in the league against Galway for example, he was out classed...& out strengthed around the middle! - Possible because he's more of a defender!?

EDIT: I must make it clear, I am a fan of Charlie...I just don't see him as the answer to all Armagh's forward problems. I actually look at him more as Geezer's replacement, as his distribution would be better than Ciaran McKeever's!

[GPA not OK]

The problem isn't going forward Goats. Its what to do when we get there.

The full forward line was winning ball mainly from 30 yard passes into the corners. Stevie and co. were not able to take on and beat their Derry opponents yesterday and in truth Armagh's full forward line were unable to do just that in the National League against weaker defences. In fairness this has not been a huge part of the gameplan since Joe took over.

What's more, the full forwards were not inclined to turn and shoot over their shoulders on receiving the ball. Something I know Stevie can do well, but for some reason they hadn't the confidence to try. Often when the lads should have been shooting for points they passed the ball across the forty with noone taking responsibility unless there was much more time and space available.

Confidence has been low in this quarter for a while now. A new gameplan, the return on Brian Mallon and Ronan Clarke and the introduction of a few talented U21s should change that.

[Armamike]

I thought he did really well against Galway in the league!  He was poor in the Derry game as he was played in the unfamilar role of CHF - looked as if he was totally lost there. All i know is, in the U21 games he seemed to have a bit of freedom to roam from right half forward, get on the ball and run at defences.

[armawman]

It is difficult to understand the criticism of Stephen Kernan. He scored two excellent points yesterday. For the first point, he created loads of space for himself by sidestepping the Derry defender. The problem for Armagh was that they couldn't get enough space to shoot, so any player like Stephen who can create space like this is certainly worth his place on the team. The second point was also a great effort from distance.

Armagh only scored nine points in total and Stephen scored two of the best of them, so what's the problem? He is only a new member of the championship team, so what do people expect from him ? Do they expect him to score five or six points? This year Armagh have needed scoring forwards, but when a fellah like Stephen comes along and scores a few great points, some supporters slag him off. He plays in the half forward line so two points in a game is a very good return from a half forward.

Supporters are meant to get behind the team and management. If everyone roared Stephen on and encouraged him and built up his confidence, I'm certain that he would score even more. Remember he comes from very good stock, his father was a superb forward and Aaron is also excellent. Stephen was brilliant during the Under 21 All Ireland and Peter Rafferty had great faith in him.

And anyway, he's obviously made of stern stuff because he's stood up against any of the abuse which he has received and proved his doubters wrong with two great scores yesterday. Fair play to you Stephen.  

[pintsofguinness]

I think the criticism of Stephen Kernan comes more from the sheer frustration felt when Joe has taken numerous players on to the panel, has never given a chance or given them 10 minutes in a league game, either kept them sitting on the bench for 12 months before dropping them or dropping them immediately.  Compare this with the treatment Stephen got.
Stephen is struggling to make the Cross team, do you think a Stephen Smith, a player struggling to make the Dromintee team (for example) would be given the same treatment that Stephen Kernan got?  You could bet your house he wouldn't and rightly so! 
He has had one good half of football in how many games playing senior for Armagh and suddenly Joe was right?  Nonsense. 

[corn02]

Agreed Pint, one good half does not prove the doubters wrong and from what I hear Peter Rafferty had no choice but to put his faith in him.

Encouraging to see his second half performace, alot more needed to convince me though.