Down v Meath official thread

[Pangurban]

One point from play, thats the bottom line here lads, Football in Down has hit rock bottom, time for a root and branch review of what is wrong. Although firmly opposed to the idea in the past i now believe its time to bring in some fresh thinking from outside the County. Over the past 5/6 yrs. the standards of both Club and County have been deteriorating with nothing being done to address the problem,and no one emerging within the County who would appear to be capable of addressing it. We must take the blinkers off and be prepared to be realistic about how bad we have become,and measure or standards realistically, not seeing big fish in small pools as stars,eg. there are still people within the County who consider Benny Coulter to be a great player when in truth on his day he is an average Co. Player.

[Pangurban]

Agree totally with comments in your second paragraph Mid-Louth, we will have to agree to disagree over Coulter, a good player but far from being a great one, there is at least 9/10 better foewards in the Country

[thewobbler]

Very disappointing stuff.

I think I'm finally moving towards the chain of thought that are players just aren't good enough.

Ross is obviously no tactician, but it's not a manager's fault when his team are incapable of scoring from play. And that was the big problem today. Our much maligned defence didn't do a whole pile wrong (although I can't believe that once again McGuigan was asked to pick up the most dangerous opposing forward - I genuinely feel sorry for the fella) in keeping Meath to 1.10 on a nice day for football.

We utterly dominated possession for the final quarter and yet our end product was zip, zero, nada. There were no overlapping runs, no unselfish runs. There was nobody directing play. There was no rhyme nor reason to our attacks. Not one our forwards looked like he had the better of his man. For the most part, these are individual problems.

[corn02]

The Wobbler your second paragraph is an excellent point.

I disagree with your view of the defence though, how many times did the Down man get out in front or win a high ball? Half a dozen at most the whole match.

[dundrumite]

I thought the meath fans were excellent tonight bringing a bit of atmosphere to a very dull lifeless game. Judging from that and tv their seems to be a better atmosphere in leinster than ulster would I be right?  The Down team had no intensity to their play and never looked like penetrating the Meath defence. 

[southdown]

Went to newry full of optmism.  Came home frustrated and dissapointed.

POSITIVES

Very few to be honest, but I feel Dan Gordon showed well, and Clarke was probably our most solid defender.  Thats all the positives I can think of.

NEGATIVES

The forwards messed about with the ball and were always running into trouble.  On the other hand Meath seemed to be a lot  more direct and seemed to getting there scores a lot more efficiently.

The defence was utterly woeful.  Dodgey under the high ball, alwas behind there men, always prone to loosing possession easily.  In the first 20 minutes there was period when our backs were gaining possession, the aimlessly clearing the ball straight to Meath attackers.  None of the backs seemed comfortable on the ball, which was evident from the number of times the ball was played back to Brendan McViegh.

1 score from play.  Enough said.

The fact that the Meath CHB scored 3 points from play speaks volumes.

Benny Coulter just was not effective.  i dont know why he has not preformed well lately but something is obviously not right.  Maybe he is a marked man now, who knows.

In general we were not direct enough, couldnt take our chances and never really troubled Meath at all.  Fair play to Meath, good luck in the next round.

On another note, tell the County Board to get some decent batteries for the microphone, that poor woman singing the anthom must have been shi**ing herself!

[southdown]

I think the National League has to be taken more seriosuly.  This year the management traeted the league in the same way that most managers would treat the McKenna cup. Too much experimenting  and switching meant that the team could not settle and the results spoke for themselves.  You cannot have a poor league campaign and then think that the team will automatically gel come championship time.  The team needs some consistency so that the team can build.  Even before todays game people were guessing in the stand what team was actually going to start.

[Mourne Rover]

Just back from the game and I haven't been as depressed since...well, this time last year or maybe it was the year before. We all know we are not good enough, and we have not been a serious team since we narrowly lost the 1996 Ulster final to Tyrone, but it is still difficult to come to terms with a performance as drab and spiritless as tonight's.

In fairness to everyone connected with the squad, we were quite promising in the two Cavan games and were only just edged out by a decent Monaghan team, but tonight was a bitter disappointment. In the car on the way home, we tried to work out Down's man of the match. It was a grim task, and John Clarke, who might have been rated at four out of ten, probably got the nod by default.

For what its worth, here's my take on the players. Brendan McVeigh had little chance with the goal, and not much else to do, but, with our midfield struggling badly until the closing stages, he was unable to vary his kick-outs.

It was very strange that Clarke was named at corner back and played at full back when he is either a wing half back or more likely a wing half forward but at least he competed well against young O'Rouke, who was a full head taller than him. O'Rourke still got a couple of points from play, and Clarke should pretty obviously have been moved out the field.

Rooney tries hard but he still has a lot to learn and would also be much better either at centre half or midfield. Scullion looked like a defender who had not played at county level for three or four months, and he should have been replaced long before the end. The experiment of trying Murtagh in the defence started brightly against Cavan but it has been downhill all the way since then and he was a long way off the pace tonight. He lost his man for their goal, got plenty of possesion at other stages and could do nothing with it, and it was verging on the astonishing that he was not substituted. He did make a couple of runs late on when it made little difference.

Cole and Grant were taken off before half-time and can feel hard done by. Both were out of position in the half-back line, but they made nowhere nearly as many mistakes as Scullion and Murtagh.

Gordon had a quiet game against strong opponents, but at least showed a bit of heart towards the end. Lynch gives his all, but is not a county midfielder by any standards.

I think that McGovern is a decent young player who showed his potential for Queen's this season, but in many ways he summed up a lack of decisiveness along the line. He had something of a nightmare against Monaghan and his confidence must have been shattered. Yet he was asked to start again tonight, made every effort but had absolutely no self belief and amazingly, although his head had dropped from an early stage, was still there at the final whistle.

It's hard to be too critical of Carr, who after all kicked seven frees on a night when we only scored eight points in total,  and almost got a goal near the end, but he contributed very little from play. I assume he was supposed to be marking Moynes, who repeatedly burst up the field and kicked three points as well as setting up other scores. Carr was also knocked off the ball far too easily, but, like several of the others, he is still relatively young and should be better next year.

Sexton, as he always does, worked tirelessly, but made little impact tonight. The incredible thing was that if his late shot, which shaved the post, had gone in, we would have been just two points behind with about five minutes, including injury time, left.

Walsh never got going and, while he has been unfortunate with injuries, it is difficult to believe how far he has gone backwards since he was a teenager.

Kearney is another player who can feel disapppointed to be replaced. He regularly beat Fay to the ball in the first half, and took a couple of heavy knocks for his trouble, and his pace and strength could have been even more useful out the field.

Leaving Benny to the last of the starting 15, it has to be accepted that switching him to wing half forward, which many Down supporters wanted, made little difference. He got an excellent point early on - which means that we actually went more than 70 minutes without a score from play - but was tightly marked and looked a frustrated player. I'm not convinced that he is as fit as he should be, but he probably should have had a penalty in the second quarter and definitely should have been thrown up front in the closing stages.

Of the subs, Murphy, given that his hand injury must have been a factor, was reasonable. McGuigan unfortunately is not a corner back and it is simply wrong to ask him to play there. Ambrose should have been thrown in around midfield or the half forward line, and he not not a full forward. McComiskey remains an excellent prospect, but this was not his night.

It's hardly a surprise to suggest that we lack natural leaders, but it was very evident again tonight. We started quite well, but their goal caused a familiar collapse.

Fair play to Meath, who in the Dublin games were operating at a higher level of intensity than we have been able to manage, and won tonight without playing particularly well. They are a decent side, and can probably improve as the qualifiers progress.

Fair play also to all the critics of the Down set-up, on this board and elsewhere, who I often disagreed with but who got it right this time round.

We can only look forward to a tough enough division three next February. As of now, I would settle for survival, regrouping and trying to get everyone fit for yet another summer of rebuilding.

Perhaps Marty Clarke will get bored with earning all that money, and emerging as the most talked-about young player in Australian Rules,  and arrive back for the Ulster U21 championship in the spring. Otherwise, another long hard season beckons. Funnily enough, I can't wait.   
 

[thewobbler]

Our defenders should be given a break here lads. Yep, on occasion they didn't compete strongly in the air, and yep on other occasions they were found behind their men. But, it was a forward's day in my mind - being warm and calm - and unlike Meath's defence, they rarely enjoyed the support from their forwards that they should get. Time and time again Down's attackers ran into a green wall, due to the sheer numbers back helping out. Down's defence were continually islated. They were also playing against a team with some semblance of tactics and organisation. To get through all this and concede only 1.10 was, in my mind, impressive. It's not like Meath kicked an abundance of wides.

Our problems were much further up the field today.

[southdown]

How many wides had we? 17/18? The thing is we were crap and could have won this game.
Just a couple of points regarding Mourne Rovers post. I agree with a lot of it, but to me McGovern is not county standard at all. Aidan Carr, is not a CHF, his man scored 3 points tonight. If he is to play in the half forward line then it should be on the wing.
I think its timw to introduce more of the 2005 minor team, too many of the current set up arent interested. They have had their chance.

Who should be introduced?  Surely if any of these lads are good enough they would have had their chance already?

[agorm]

After Saturday who is in or not in the Meath panel,will be an irrelavance for the rest of this year

Great to get the chance to throw that one back at Pangurban. Over confidence was not warranted from either side going into this game.

Overall, I was satisfied at the performance though I thought that Down at least held their own in Midfield and probably won the majority of the breaking ball in the first half. I think that Meath were well served in defence by McKeigue, Fay, Moyles and Kenny who tenaciously snuffed out anything the Down forwards could muster. It is a great credit to our defence that Down did not score from play again after the first score of the game from Coulter.
I thought that we were shaky up front early on and needed an excellent Moyles point to settle us down. Peader Byrne was the only forward to come to the mark in the opening quarter and his goal was crucial. He ran on to an excellent quick delivery from O'Rourke to shoot hard and low just inside the goalkeepers right hand post. That settled Meath though Bray and O' Rourke were the only other two forwards to show form. Farrell was subdued.
We have problems at midfield and we still dont know our best half forward line. Donegan was replaced by McLoughlin in the 2nd quarter and saw more of the ball but I am not overly confident in him either. Byrne is definitely worth his place, not so sure about Reilly, Donegan or McLoughlin though they may be the best we've got.
Crawford seems to have lost something, spark, interest, passion - I dont know. The selectors need a serious think. Moyles is our inspirational player at the moment. Should they move him into midfield with perhaps Reilly back CHB? If we get an easy enough draw in the next round perhaps they could try this option.

Overall a great evening. The Newry ground is in super condition, with a great stand, everything weel organised and marshalled. Hopefully Down will come good again soon. The tradition is there. They may need to up the ante at underage level or freshen up the management in order to come again. This sounds as if Meath have achieved something here, in reality we have only gone 1 additional round in the qualifiers. People say that we are a coming team. We are a long way from the finished article and unfortunately may lose one or two key players before the development of the team is complete.

Regarding Graham Geraghty, I would not be so sure that he will be taken back at this stage. The management may judge that his return may disrupt the spirit in the camp. I would hope that he could come back and that it would have a positive effect but if I was a betting man I would say that we wont see hom in a Meath jersey again.

[Pangurban]

Fair play to you Agorm, i deserved that dig. Although Meath did not play as well as they can, you desrved your win, hope to see youse go a lot further

[agorm]

What you wrote may well be true come the next game.....

Best of luck to Down, the tradition is there. A few good minor teams could turn things around for you.

[In the Onion Bag]

Its all so sad.  Down are just poor no, crap, to be exact.  Gaelic football has moved on since the nineties and we have been left behind.

I really feel for Benny.  With a better team he would have an Allstar.  Sadly though, he will probably have to accept the same fate as Big Ambrose and Liam Austin (ahhh, how could I promote Liam into the same sentence as the Gt Ambrose), i.e beavering away through many lean years surrounded by lesser talent but still providing a role model for new talent.  If so I hope he gets his just rewards, just like Ambrose and Liam who persevered and in the end got substitute outings to get the AIF medal they so richly deserved.

I can only hope Benny keeps the faith and continues to help provide a role model for emerging talent that hopefully will replace the crap we are presently stuck with.  If not, we would be better lowering our standards (I can't believe I said that, anyone who knows me will know how much this hurts) and aim for that Cup that Antrim are presently interested in.

[Hardy]

Thanks agorm for that report from the Meath perspective. I didn't make it to Newry in the end. I'll have to make amends by travelling to Ballybofey or Enniskillen or wherever next weekend!

One question. The commentators on LMFM said Moyles was playing in the half forward line (they specifically said RHF at one stage) and occasionally helping out the defence and that Kevin Reilly was CHB. I took this to mean Moyles was playing as a third midfielder (or fourth, if you count Donegan for his short sojourn). Lads here are saying Moyles scored his 3 points from CHB, but they may be just going by the number on his back. How did it look to you – was he marking Carr or operating as a midfielder and was Reilly CHB?

I'm absolutely against moving Moyles from CHB. He has solved our biggest problem, that has been with us since the departure of Enda McManus. There's no longer a gaping hole in the middle, as there was since 2001. I agree he's the inspirational player in the team and we should build this project around him, but from CHB. Every successful team has a very good half back line and I think we have the makings of it in Kenny, Moyles and King.

It seems the doubts about Crawford are justified. As you mentioned, he looks to me to be missing something, perhaps enthusiasm. Or maybe he's just had his day. I've always been a fan of Charles, despite his many detractors and feel he could be a first rate midfielder if given a decent run and the confidence of the selectors. How did he do when he came on?