Donegal v Kerry - 2025 All-Ireland Football Final

[lfdown2]

"Last year was better...."

[twohands!!!]

If youre on a county panel and you cant kick a ball 45 metres should you be on a county panel?

I thought there was a noticeable difference in the quality of kicking between the two teams Sunday.

Kerry hit a couple of foot passes that were absolutely superb throughout the game - just perfect weight right into the chest making things as easy as possible for the receiving player - just absolute dreams of balls to receive - Sean O'Shea had one crossfield ball where Donegal were trying to put Kerry under pressure when they were coming out from the back Donegal weren't doing too badly and had a couple of men up and around the Kerry players and were chasing and harrying well enough - O'Sheas just turned and switched it accross the field - that wasn't the only one but was the most memorable to me. They had a couple more down the other end - there was one where they kicked it around the arc to create a 2v1 that was possibly half a goal chance but instead Kerry took what was a tap-over free.

[On a related note - coaches should really be pushing players to kick pass around the arc as opposed to hand-pass when trying to switch play; hand-passes are slower and also don't have anything like the distance - when you're trying to stretch a side from side to side around the arc - kicking it looks to be a lot more effective in creating overloads.

Donegal's overall kicking by comparison was nowhere near the standard of the Kerry kicking - the few "high" balls they attempted to kick in around the square were of a really poor standard and there was at least one turnover by Kerry that was the result of a poor kick pass out of defence.

Strategically I still think that Donegal's running and handpassing heavy game is a serious disadvantage under the new rules - the teams that are going to win games with the 3up 3back are those that get the most quick balls into their forwards.

[Spiderlegs]

Until 7 months ago, every player in Ireland had grown up on a certain ruleset.

Kerry's and David Clifford's impressive 2025 Croke Park performances feel somewhat fraudulent to me as they needed lifetime rule changes to achieve them.

You are dead right, every player did - including the Kerry lads! Or did they get a sneak peek?! Surely FRC's Michael Murphy could have done the same.

I mean for God's sake, what were the FRC thinking?! County players had to learn to kick a point from 40 yards. Midfielders had to learn how to catch it over their heads. And don't get me started on the poor defenders who only had 7 months to learn how to defend one on one...

A blind man could see that Kerry/Clifford had been curtailed by a "System" allowed by the previous ruleset.
It's possible that they would have eventually found a way to overcome it. It's also possible that they wouldn't.
By the end of 2024 they hadn't.

Kerry had very little adapting to do for the new rules - they were designed with Kerry type football in Croke Park in mind after all.

Lol what does this even mean? Good football?

Potentially it means good football yes - but that all depends on what you consider that to be.

For me, Kerry football means a graceful attacking style built on quick ball movement, support play, sharp & accurate kick passing, composed/skillful forwards, flair and a natural rhythm. Purists would probably say that Kerry at their best is the way the game is meant to played.

For me Kerry football (prior to 2025) also meant a naivety towards modern tactics (and a reluctance to do what it took with them in mind), a toothless attack against well drilled defences and disciplined structures and being outworked/out-thought on numerous occasions by teams with a clear tactical gameplan.

I stand by it when I say, without these rule changes (which I am in favour of), Kerry and David Clifford would have continued to struggle.

[twohands!!!]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

[Spiderlegs]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

[twohands!!!]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

I mean it took extra-time for Armagh to beat them in the semi-final last year, they lost the final in 2023 by 2 points and they won it in 2022, so there's a strong chance they could have won it this year under the old rules as well so anyone saying they definitely wouldn't have won it under the old rules would have difficulty making all that strong a case. Any rules changes that favoured attacking football were always going to favour a side who had the strongest attack.

[Ethan Tremblay]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

I mean it took extra-time for Armagh to beat them in the semi-final last year, they lost the final in 2023 by 2 points and they won it in 2022, so there's a strong chance they could have won it this year under the old rules as well so anyone saying they definitely wouldn't have won it under the old rules would have difficulty making all that strong a case. Any rules changes that favoured attacking football were always going to favour a side who had the strongest attack.

Sensible post that, especially that highlighted part. 

[DaleCooper]

Kerry were bookies favourite from the get go. I dont understand why the rules are getting ALL the credit, kerry weren't actually tested properly  in an All Ireland final because they were too good.

"Kerry were written off" is a line I have heard after Meath. Gavin White talked about the pace of the new rules & the possible injury factor as a result, but we have to wait for stats etc.

They have a bunch of the finest footballers in the country for the last 4-5 years now beginning to realise their potential.



Lightning doesn't strike twice and they produced devastating purple patches in key moments against Armagh and Donegal.

Donegal in theory could have gotten closer but kerry probably would have ramped up again, we will never know.

They are a tougher bunch than many kerry teams of past, mentally and physically.

[EoinW]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

The conspiracy thing is all my fault.  I apologize for insinuating that there was a conspiracy.  To clarify, my point was that the rules changes suited Kerry perfectly and hurt the counties whose strength was defensive football.  More coincidental than conspiracy.

I guess we should admire the Ulster representatives who chose to sacrifice short term Ulster success for the future good of the game.  My complaint is not with rule changes.  My complaint is with ALL the rule changes at once and how it has completely changed the game overnight.  Thus those representatives didn't just sacrifice Ulster's chances of an AI in 2025, they've sacrificed the entire traditional game!

Unintended consequences are always a concern when reform takes place.  Fortunately they have this off season to moderate their mistakes and get some balance back into the game.

Regarding Kerry: I would have given them as much chance of winning this year under the old rules as any other county.  How much better are they from the previous few years?  We'll never know.  We can't do a comparison because it was a completely different game this year.  They were denied the opportunity to show fans how much better they were.  Plus the question will always lurk: where they really better at all or was it just the rules changes?

The rug was pulled out from under the Ulster defensive systems by the FRC.  In a sense, it was also pulled out from under the legacy of this Kerry team.  Technically any AIs they win under the new rules will be tainted because fans will always ask: would they have won under the traditional rules?

Thus this massive overhaul of the game hurts Kerry as much as everyone else.

[tiempo]

I consider myself half decent at pool

Walk into a bar and you could have 57 different varieties of rules depending on who you're playing against

I just defer to what the other person wants to play, when you win there can be no excuses, its quite satisfying too

GAA is codified, everyone plays by the same rules, Kerry won, Sam 2025 is in no way diminished

Sin e

[JoG2]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

The conspiracy thing is all my fault.  I apologize for insinuating that there was a conspiracy.  To clarify, my point was that the rules changes suited Kerry perfectly and hurt the counties whose strength was defensive football.  More coincidental than conspiracy.

I guess we should admire the Ulster representatives who chose to sacrifice short term Ulster success for the future good of the game.  My complaint is not with rule changes.  My complaint is with ALL the rule changes at once and how it has completely changed the game overnight.  Thus those representatives didn't just sacrifice Ulster's chances of an AI in 2025, they've sacrificed the entire traditional game!

Unintended consequences are always a concern when reform takes place.  Fortunately they have this off season to moderate their mistakes and get some balance back into the game.

Regarding Kerry: I would have given them as much chance of winning this year under the old rules as any other county.  How much better are they from the previous few years?  We'll never know.  We can't do a comparison because it was a completely different game this year.  They were denied the opportunity to show fans how much better they were.  Plus the question will always lurk: where they really better at all or was it just the rules changes?

The rug was pulled out from under the Ulster defensive systems by the FRC.  In a sense, it was also pulled out from under the legacy of this Kerry team.  Technically any AIs they win under the new rules will be tainted because fans will always ask: would they have won under the traditional rules?

Thus this massive overhaul of the game hurts Kerry as much as everyone else.

Been catching up on this thread this morning... Of all the crack pot stuff, this is right up there, along with turning the AI final off after 15 mins.

McGuinness, superb manager and motivator that he is, had an absolute nightmare on Sunday. Zonal defence and the over elaborate hand passing within the scoring zone lost them the game. Put the feckin thing over the ball when in the scoring zone ,man mark the oppositions dangermen and they wouldn't have been far away. You can't completely run from risk with the new rules, Jim and Donegal will know for the '26 campaign

[Mad Mentor]

"Traditionalists" who bemoan the new rules are really only talking about recent traditions after the massed defence became popular. For the vast bulk of GAA history that was not the way football was played so have we returned to the traditional way where individual battles are key? Every county would love to have a David Clifford with the ability to score the way he can. Once backs relearn how to tackle as individuals things may even up. We are still in the very early days of these new rules and there will inevitably be an evolution of tactics.   

[Tubberman]

In terms of the rules suiting Kerry - is that surprising? the FRC based the rules in large part on that survey that almost 10,000 players, coaches, manager and GAA folk answered.

They released the report of what people said they wanted to see under the new rules.

The top five skills that people like are kicking, catching, scoring of long-range points, goal scoring and general creative play.
• The top three tactical skills were: 1 v 1 contests to gain possession of the ball; taking on an opponent in a 1 v 1 situation; and good support play during speedy attacking transitions.
• There was a strong dislike from people regarding dissent towards match officials and cynical/delaying tactics.
• In general, people want to see:
- A game where skill and risk taking are rewarded.
- A game which encourages forward momentum.
- A game of contests.

Full report is at the link

There's also a raft of data indicating that the people who responded to the various FRC surverys

Folk going as if the new rules are only popular because of some sort of GAA media conspiracy really need to give their heads a wobble. 

https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/prd/kiulqmb3ytauroc5prmi.pdf

Also in terms of it being some conspiracy against Northern teams the makeup of the committee

PETER CANAVAN - Errigal Ciaran GAA, County Tyrone
COLM COLLINS - Cratloe GAA, County Clare
MAURICE DEEGAN - Stradbally GAA, County Laois
PATRICK DOHERTY - The Downs GAA, County Westmeath
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE - Finuge GAA, County Kerry
SHANE FLANAGAN - Johnstownbridge GAA, County Kildare
JIM GAVIN - Round Towers GAA, Clondalkin, County Dublin
JAMES HORAN - Ballintubber GAA, County Mayo
ALEC McQUILLAN - Con Magees Glenravel GAC, County Antrim
MICHAEL MEANEY - Old Leighlin GAA, County Carlow
COLM NALLY - Newtown Blues GAA, County Louth
SÉAMUS KENNY (Runaí) – Simonstown Gaels GFC, County Meath

Plus Jim Gavin as chairperson

Michael Murphy and Malachy O'Rourke were there for a bit as well.

If this was some Kerry grand plan against the North, Eamonn Fitzmaurice must be one hell of a slick-tongued operator.

Not surprising at all that the rules would suit Kerry - in fact it was predicted.

Look anyone going down the route of it being a conspiracy against Northern teams, they're wide of the mark IMO.

But it took rule changes for Kerry and Clifford to get back to this level. Is anyone disputing that? Does anyone believe that Kerry were on their way to becoming champions in 2025 regardless?

I mean it took extra-time for Armagh to beat them in the semi-final last year, they lost the final in 2023 by 2 points and they won it in 2022, so there's a strong chance they could have won it this year under the old rules as well so anyone saying they definitely wouldn't have won it under the old rules would have difficulty making all that strong a case. Any rules changes that favoured attacking football were always going to favour a side who had the strongest attack.

Cheers for that, Michael Owen.

Well the point seems to be lost on a lot of our northern brethren who think it's all been done to help Kerry and thwart Ulster!

[Blowitupref]

Other than kick outs into a crowded area how many "game of contests" has been truly seen this year?

[cjx]

You want a Blue Peter badge for getting closest to Kerry.G Meath be running round saying we beat the All-Ireland champs under that criteria, even though Donegal creamed them for 20.

Good luck to Meath. It is still an amateur game in the end with people mostly going to work the next day.
Tyrone in transition with 4 big retirements possible and no sign of the ready replacements ( especially for the big hard running central spine needed) or tactical nous to win AI. Lots of deep winter thinking and searching needed but being still fundamentally amateur, anything is possible.