Race for the ARAS 2025

[Snapchap]

Sinn Fein are a political party with ideas of leading a government in the Dail. They received more or less the same vote share as FF and FG. How is it possible that they can't put forward a representative candidate of their own?

Surely it would have been tactically crazy for SF to run a candidate? Three reasons:

1.Given transfers will always go from FF to FG and reverse, then a SF candidate will always struggle. Similarly a SF backed candidate like Connolly could very well top the poll on first preferences and lose by a significant margin once the FFG transfers are distributed. Why would SF set themselves up for such a fall?

2. If SF are to have any hope of getting Mary Lou as Taoiseach, they will have to have a broad consensus of the left. This is the first time we have seen the left parties working so closely together and SF stand to gain most from that broad left co-operation/unity. Why would they jeopardise that strategy just to run their own candidate, who would likely not win anyway, for a powerless position?

3. In order to get SFs backing, a red line condition would have been that Connolly (or anyone else) would have to speak enthusiastically in support of a united Ireland in their campaign. Having Irish Unity being addressed and platformed by non-SF candidate only helps them create the impression that momementum is building towards a border poll.

Points 1 and 2 are plainly contradictory. If SF are building an Alliance on the left why could they not count on transfers from Connolly? Or the transfers from their candidate going to Connolly? FF and FG are content to split the government's vote with 2 candidates, how is that anymore tactically correct than SF backing Connolly.

Your biggest argument as I've highlighted in bold seems to be that SF are going to lose anyway so it's better not to run a candidate at all. A bizarre, incomprehensible position for a political party involved in democracy. A similar strategy would have been for them not to contest the last general election once it was apparent to them they weren't going to win.

Whilst the Presidential role is largely ceremonial, running a candidate for the position is very important for a large political party to be taken seriously. A Presidential campaign mobilises your grassroots supporters, indicates your party position on matters, encourages recognition of your party around the country and shows the electorate that you take the institutions of government seriously.

Points 1 & 2 are not contradictory. How could they on one hand say they are serious about trying to build an alliance on the left, and on the other hand refuse to endorse a left unity candidate for what is a politically useless position. Beating the FFG duopoly won't come about for SF by splitting the first preference vote. SF are historically not transfer friendly so running their own candidate, splitting the first preference votes and relying on transfers wouldn't have been the smartest. And to suggest that not running a candidate for a meaningless, ceremonial role is akin to not standing in a general election is just a plainly stupid thing to come out with.

You can argue all you want that their decision is not in the interests of democracy... such debates are always sparked by electoral pacts, but that didn't mean that it wasn't a tactically correct decision for then to have made.

And as for your contention that SF can't be taken seriously unless they run their own candidate for a ceremonial position.... what a load of complete and utter waffle. They are top of the polls north and south and are the largest party in Ireland. Like them or loathe them, they are already taken seriously. FFS just about everything FF does and says going back years is calculated against the threat posed to it by SF.

And some might say that putting their own party pride/ego first by running their own candidate, instead of doing something to build/strengthen the sort of co-operation among the left that could be crucial to their chances of leading the next government, would be the sign of a party that isn't serious about getting into government. I'd suggest this show of commitment to left unity is a clear signal that they are serious about getting MLMcD into the Taoiseachs office.

[Rossfan]

Steen would have wiped the floor with all of them in a debate

She's smart, articulate and smoking hot
 
She was instrumental in helping defeat the recent referendums and made highly unpopular people look like babbling fools during those debates/tV appearances

Nurse!!!

[Franko]

Ye

A genuine question to the 'Steen was robbed' folks

I think it would be generally accepted that there must be some controls around who gets onto the ballot

Lest we have a case where we've 50,000 candidates to choose from and the RTE debates become even more chaotic

So, given that you disagree with the current controls that are in place - what would your new proposals be for this?

I'm not in the "Steen was robbed" camp I'm in the "this ballot is far too small for a healthy democracy" camp. Sinn Fein are a political party with ideas of leading a government in the Dail. They received more or less the same vote share as FF and FG. How is it possible that they can't put forward a representative candidate of their own? A gerrymandered candidate would make some sense in a FPTP election but none whatsoever in an Irish Presidential election.

Similarly there were plenty of Independents who didn't agree with Steen but gave her support in the interest of democratic debate. I've no doubt that a lot more FF and FG councillors, TD's and senators would have given their support to Steen's candicacy if not for the party whip cracking down.

The position of Ceann Comhraile is elected by secret ballot for the very specific reason that party whips can't dominate and curtail the aspirations of popular independents or small parties. TD's and senators should also be able to support a Presidential candidate by secret ballot in the interest of a wider political spectrum being represented.

So in summary...

Sinn Fein are useless for not putting forward a 'party' candidate

FG and FF are useless for putting forward a 'party' candidate and instructing party members to back them

You do understand this makes you look a bit silly

Twisting yourself in knots there to construe what I said as that.

SF, FF and FG all conspired to shorten the ballot paper (through different means) and stop a boarder discussion being held about who should represent the country.

?Do you think only 3 runners for President is a good thing?

No knots at all

That's what you said

Do you genuinely think that SF, FF and FG all sat down together and plotted to have the least possible names on the ballot?

Really?

To what end?

No I don't think they sat down together and plotted it. SF sat down and seen the field was only going to be 3 fairly uninspiring people and for reasons only they'll know decided not to contest the election despite the opportunity for a SF candidate to get a much larger share of the spotlight than is usually the case in a Presidential election.

SF, FG and FF sought to keep the ballot as short as possible to protect their own individual candidates and facilitate an election that is just FG v FF v The Left. Whilst they are entitled to work the nomination system to their favour, and it shouldn't be incumbent upon individual politicians to hobble their careers by breaking rank with the party, I'd have to say the outcome has been an emasculated field of 3 pretty uninspiring candidates.

Disagree with that?

Yeah pretty much all of it cos it's absolute scutter

So they 'conspired' but they didn't actually conspire.  You do know what conspire means?

And SF saw a candidate fairly closely aligned to their own ideals and didn't stand someone against her, saving the party time, money, effort and a good politician lost to a ceremonial role

Also to note - for someone who was deriding SF for not fielding their 'own individual candidate' - you've just said above that SF have their 'own individual candidate' :-)

FF and FG fielded candidates and **shock horror** instructed the party members through the whips to support said candidates

The fact that there's only 3 candidates is disappointing but that brings me back to my very first post on the topic, which you nor anyone else have answered...

What's your alternative system?

The position of Ceann Comhraile is elected by secret ballot for the very specific reason that party whips can't dominate and curtail the aspirations of popular independents or small parties. TD's and senators should also be able to support a Presidential candidate by secret ballot in the interest of a wider political spectrum being represented.

Can't you read?

Tell your Shinner handlers to save themselves "time, money and effort" at the next general election by not running any candidates in constituencies they aren't going to win.

Apologies, amongst all the shite, I'd missed that.  I suppose you had to make one point that stood up to some half scrutiny.  Though you are aware that (apparently) in politics there's no such thing as a secret ballot

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

[trileacman]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

[Franko]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

Maybe it is a shortage of votes - add that to the list if you want

If you think saying that would somehow annoy me you've got it all wrong

It's very much not my idea, I'm just telling it like it is

Those are the reasons as far as I see it - I don't comment on them other than to say they make perfect sense

Same as it makes perfect sense for FF and FG to instruct party members to vote for 'their' candidate


And lastly...

we've gone from 'shinner handlers' to sentence construction now?

The barrel is definitely empty

What's next - yo mamma jokes?

[trileacman]

Sinn Fein are a political party with ideas of leading a government in the Dail. They received more or less the same vote share as FF and FG. How is it possible that they can't put forward a representative candidate of their own?

Surely it would have been tactically crazy for SF to run a candidate? Three reasons:

1.Given transfers will always go from FF to FG and reverse, then a SF candidate will always struggle. Similarly a SF backed candidate like Connolly could very well top the poll on first preferences and lose by a significant margin once the FFG transfers are distributed. Why would SF set themselves up for such a fall?

2. If SF are to have any hope of getting Mary Lou as Taoiseach, they will have to have a broad consensus of the left. This is the first time we have seen the left parties working so closely together and SF stand to gain most from that broad left co-operation/unity. Why would they jeopardise that strategy just to run their own candidate, who would likely not win anyway, for a powerless position?

3. In order to get SFs backing, a red line condition would have been that Connolly (or anyone else) would have to speak enthusiastically in support of a united Ireland in their campaign. Having Irish Unity being addressed and platformed by non-SF candidate only helps them create the impression that momementum is building towards a border poll.

Points 1 and 2 are plainly contradictory. If SF are building an Alliance on the left why could they not count on transfers from Connolly? Or the transfers from their candidate going to Connolly? FF and FG are content to split the government's vote with 2 candidates, how is that anymore tactically correct than SF backing Connolly.

Your biggest argument as I've highlighted in bold seems to be that SF are going to lose anyway so it's better not to run a candidate at all. A bizarre, incomprehensible position for a political party involved in democracy. A similar strategy would have been for them not to contest the last general election once it was apparent to them they weren't going to win.

Whilst the Presidential role is largely ceremonial, running a candidate for the position is very important for a large political party to be taken seriously. A Presidential campaign mobilises your grassroots supporters, indicates your party position on matters, encourages recognition of your party around the country and shows the electorate that you take the institutions of government seriously.

Points 1 & 2 are not contradictory. How could they on one hand say they are serious about trying to build an alliance on the left, and on the other hand refuse to endorse a left unity candidate for what is a politically useless position. Beating the FFG duopoly won't come about for SF by splitting the first preference vote. SF are historically not transfer friendly so running their own candidate, splitting the first preference votes and relying on transfers wouldn't have been the smartest. And to suggest that not running a candidate for a meaningless, ceremonial role is akin to not standing in a general election is just a plainly stupid thing to come out with.

You can argue all you want that their decision is not in the interests of democracy... such debates are always sparked by electoral pacts, but that didn't mean that it wasn't a tactically correct decision for then to have made.

And as for your contention that SF can't be taken seriously unless they run their own candidate for a ceremonial position.... what a load of complete and utter waffle. They are top of the polls north and south and are the largest party in Ireland. Like them or loathe them, they are already taken seriously. FFS just about everything FF does and says going back years is calculated against the threat posed to it by SF.

And some might say that putting their own party pride/ego first by running their own candidate, instead of doing something to build/strengthen the sort of co-operation among the left that could be crucial to their chances of leading the next government, would be the sign of a party that isn't serious about getting into government. I'd suggest this show of commitment to left unity is a clear signal that they are serious about getting MLMcD into the Taoiseachs office.

Pretty strange then for Ireland's biggest party who are "top of the polls north and south" not only to be unable to run a viable candidate for president but also unable to organise the left coalition's selection of a candidate. Connolly was chosen and supported by Labour and the Soc Dems who came together to get her nominated. SF then spent 2 months refusing to say if they would support her or field their own candidate. They fairly dragged their heels over it for that last 2 months before "committing to left unity".

More likely I would think is that the SF brass wanted to run their own candidate but off the back of a terrible presidential election in 2018 and a poor showing in last years general election MLMD knew she couldn't afford another bad result. Given that Connolly had hit the ground strongly she probably knew that a SF candidate coming in last in the first preference votes would spell the end of her leadership of SF.

[trileacman]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

Maybe it is a shortage of votes - add that to the list if you want

If you think saying that would somehow annoy me you've got it all wrong

It's very much not my idea, I'm just telling it like it is

Those are the reasons as far as I see it - I don't comment on them other than to say they make perfect sense

Same as it makes perfect sense for FF and FG to instruct party members to vote for 'their' candidate


And lastly...

we've gone from 'shinner handlers' to sentence construction now?

The barrel is definitely empty

What's next - yo mamma jokes?

So you concede SF probably don't have the votes to contest a presidential election?

[Franko]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

Maybe it is a shortage of votes - add that to the list if you want

If you think saying that would somehow annoy me you've got it all wrong

It's very much not my idea, I'm just telling it like it is

Those are the reasons as far as I see it - I don't comment on them other than to say they make perfect sense

Same as it makes perfect sense for FF and FG to instruct party members to vote for 'their' candidate


And lastly...

we've gone from 'shinner handlers' to sentence construction now?

The barrel is definitely empty

What's next - yo mamma jokes?

So you concede SF probably don't have the votes to contest a presidential election?

It's certainly possible, but if you say probably, sure why not.  Go on ahead, I genuinely couldn't give a shite

But can you now admit that your first post on this issue was pure bollocks

And that you were just itching for a bit of old shinner bashing, but couldn't come out and say it

[trileacman]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

Maybe it is a shortage of votes - add that to the list if you want

If you think saying that would somehow annoy me you've got it all wrong

It's very much not my idea, I'm just telling it like it is

Those are the reasons as far as I see it - I don't comment on them other than to say they make perfect sense

Same as it makes perfect sense for FF and FG to instruct party members to vote for 'their' candidate


And lastly...

we've gone from 'shinner handlers' to sentence construction now?

The barrel is definitely empty

What's next - yo mamma jokes?

So you concede SF probably don't have the votes to contest a presidential election?

It's certainly possible, but if you say probably, sure why not.  Go on ahead, I genuinely couldn't give a shite

But can you now admit that your first post on this issue was pure bollocks

And that you were just itching for a bit of old shinner bashing, but couldn't come out and say it

What part was bollocks?

We are pretty much all agree that the presidential race is too narrow. FG and FF closed out independent candidates by using the party whip. SF, despite being the islands biggest party, didn't field a candidate. Had the 3 big parties acted differently the election might be better for it.

[Snapchap]

Sinn Fein are a political party with ideas of leading a government in the Dail. They received more or less the same vote share as FF and FG. How is it possible that they can't put forward a representative candidate of their own?

Surely it would have been tactically crazy for SF to run a candidate? Three reasons:

1.Given transfers will always go from FF to FG and reverse, then a SF candidate will always struggle. Similarly a SF backed candidate like Connolly could very well top the poll on first preferences and lose by a significant margin once the FFG transfers are distributed. Why would SF set themselves up for such a fall?

2. If SF are to have any hope of getting Mary Lou as Taoiseach, they will have to have a broad consensus of the left. This is the first time we have seen the left parties working so closely together and SF stand to gain most from that broad left co-operation/unity. Why would they jeopardise that strategy just to run their own candidate, who would likely not win anyway, for a powerless position?

3. In order to get SFs backing, a red line condition would have been that Connolly (or anyone else) would have to speak enthusiastically in support of a united Ireland in their campaign. Having Irish Unity being addressed and platformed by non-SF candidate only helps them create the impression that momementum is building towards a border poll.

Points 1 and 2 are plainly contradictory. If SF are building an Alliance on the left why could they not count on transfers from Connolly? Or the transfers from their candidate going to Connolly? FF and FG are content to split the government's vote with 2 candidates, how is that anymore tactically correct than SF backing Connolly.

Your biggest argument as I've highlighted in bold seems to be that SF are going to lose anyway so it's better not to run a candidate at all. A bizarre, incomprehensible position for a political party involved in democracy. A similar strategy would have been for them not to contest the last general election once it was apparent to them they weren't going to win.

Whilst the Presidential role is largely ceremonial, running a candidate for the position is very important for a large political party to be taken seriously. A Presidential campaign mobilises your grassroots supporters, indicates your party position on matters, encourages recognition of your party around the country and shows the electorate that you take the institutions of government seriously.

Points 1 & 2 are not contradictory. How could they on one hand say they are serious about trying to build an alliance on the left, and on the other hand refuse to endorse a left unity candidate for what is a politically useless position. Beating the FFG duopoly won't come about for SF by splitting the first preference vote. SF are historically not transfer friendly so running their own candidate, splitting the first preference votes and relying on transfers wouldn't have been the smartest. And to suggest that not running a candidate for a meaningless, ceremonial role is akin to not standing in a general election is just a plainly stupid thing to come out with.

You can argue all you want that their decision is not in the interests of democracy... such debates are always sparked by electoral pacts, but that didn't mean that it wasn't a tactically correct decision for then to have made.

And as for your contention that SF can't be taken seriously unless they run their own candidate for a ceremonial position.... what a load of complete and utter waffle. They are top of the polls north and south and are the largest party in Ireland. Like them or loathe them, they are already taken seriously. FFS just about everything FF does and says going back years is calculated against the threat posed to it by SF.

And some might say that putting their own party pride/ego first by running their own candidate, instead of doing something to build/strengthen the sort of co-operation among the left that could be crucial to their chances of leading the next government, would be the sign of a party that isn't serious about getting into government. I'd suggest this show of commitment to left unity is a clear signal that they are serious about getting MLMcD into the Taoiseachs office.

Pretty strange then for Ireland's biggest party who are "top of the polls north and south" not only to be unable to run a viable candidate for president but also unable to organise the left coalition's selection of a candidate. Connolly was chosen and supported by Labour and the Soc Dems who came together to get her nominated. SF then spent 2 months refusing to say if they would support her or field their own candidate. They fairly dragged their heels over it for that last 2 months before "committing to left unity".

More likely I would think is that the SF brass wanted to run their own candidate but off the back of a terrible presidential election in 2018 and a poor showing in last years general election MLMD knew she couldn't afford another bad result. Given that Connolly had hit the ground strongly she probably knew that a SF candidate coming in last in the first preference votes would spell the end of her leadership of SF.

Why is it so "strange"? They are not transfer friendly, and were going to be up against a FFG duopoly who will, one again, transfer to eachother. Given that it's an inconsequential, ceremonial, politically useless role, why would they risk jeopardising the sort of left unity/cooperation they will need if they are to lead the next government, just so that they can say they ran a candidate for the Aras?

You can argue all you want that they should have willyfully jeopardised their changes of leading the next government by running their own candidate for a meaningless office, but its beyond daft to deny that it would have been tactically crazy.

And as I previously stated, having a non-SF candidate loudly and enthusiastically speaking out for Irish reunification is undeniably in their interest as it allows them to argue that there is an increasing momentum for a border poll.

Clearly you don't like them, and clearly you don't like the decision they came to, but that shouldn't mean you can't admit that for them, it was the tactically right and obvious decision.

Political anorak Prof. David McCann said it on BBC talkback long before SF announced their endorsement of Connolly, that there was no chance of them running their own candidate, for the very same reasons I've stated above. The only surprise was that it took them so long to announce it.

[Franko]

Why would your second point be a good idea though?

Surely that would just lead to 'emasculated' fields?  Which is exactly what got your knickers in a knot in the first place?

And 'Shinner handlers'   

There's a man low on bullets

The 2nd point is your idea. SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates that they can't run a Presidential campaign of their own. Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt? What did they poll again at the last presidential election? 6%?

Sorry I forgot to type that out in a strucuture that you can read it. Hold on I'll translate it below.

The 2nd point is your idea.

SF is of course so tight on money, canvassars, time and candidates.

They can't run a Presidential campaign of their own.

Perhaps you'd care to admit it's their shortage of votes that's really the reason they're hiding under Connolly skirt?

What did they poll again at the last presidential election?

6%?                         

Maybe it is a shortage of votes - add that to the list if you want

If you think saying that would somehow annoy me you've got it all wrong

It's very much not my idea, I'm just telling it like it is

Those are the reasons as far as I see it - I don't comment on them other than to say they make perfect sense

Same as it makes perfect sense for FF and FG to instruct party members to vote for 'their' candidate


And lastly...

we've gone from 'shinner handlers' to sentence construction now?

The barrel is definitely empty

What's next - yo mamma jokes?

So you concede SF probably don't have the votes to contest a presidential election?

It's certainly possible, but if you say probably, sure why not.  Go on ahead, I genuinely couldn't give a shite

But can you now admit that your first post on this issue was pure bollocks

And that you were just itching for a bit of old shinner bashing, but couldn't come out and say it

What part was bollocks?

We are pretty much all agree that the presidential race is too narrow. FG and FF closed out independent candidates by using the party whip. SF, despite being the islands biggest party, didn't field a candidate. Had the 3 big parties acted differently the election might be better for it.

Ach if your granny had balls

You are going over absolute waffle here - why would any party act

1. Illogically
2. Against their own interests
3. Against the interests of their own voter base

The parties all did exactly what I'd expect of them

Steen arsed about indecisively and wrongly thought the good looks and fancy coats could pull a late string or 2 (though whitey would have signed her form alright)

McGregor / Delahanty et al - pure trash

Unfortunately the 3 candidates are probably a fair enough reflection of the country right now

Plenty of people to make noise about change - but not many willing to effect the change the hard (and only real) way

[Substandard]

Looking at both sides of the argument, the role of President is representative.  Steen didn't meet the criteria through the Oireachtas or the Council routes, so that's fair enough.
It feels like it was skewed by the whip system, given the express instruction by Fine Gael to block nominations.  I get the logic of why would you facilitate an opponent of your own candidate,  but if these councillors could either support a candidate if they felt it reflected the views of a significant cohort of their constituency, or abstain in the event of a vote, then it would be more likely a candidate would fulfil the criteria.  It still would require the numbers, and that mathematically would prevent a ludicrous number of candidates qualifying.
The sense of injustice,  if you like, is that the mainstream parties pulled up the drawbridge behind them to virtually guarantee nobody else would be in the running.
That's as I see it, but I could be wrong, or missing some point, or just plain misinformed.

Steen would easily have gotten 4 councils. But she simply wasn't arsed going down the sticks and putting in the hard yards. She let Toibin do the running in the Oireachtas, only showing up when it was clear she was cooked. Turns out Iona don't have all that much juice

I agree 3 isn't ideal, but the majority of the independents this time were absolute vermin. The question is where were the centrist candidates that would have gotten nominations this time?

That's probably true, maybe she or her camp overestimated their potential clout, and they found out too little too late too late once it became apparent that the council route looked close- did she think she'd get the 20 from the Seanad easier in the first place?
Im any event,  it's all purely speculative from here on out, and the narrative is already writing itself.  A low turnout?  A lot of Steen supporters didn't bother voting.  A higher than normal spoiled vote return?  All would-be Steen voters, so combine the two and she would have won at a canter.
A lot was made of her only polling at 3% beforehand, so for someone so statistically irrelevant,  she has generated a lot of debate.  Regarding independents, I think there is a growing cynicism and disillusionment with the main parties cum one party, and Sinn Féin offering precious little alternative, so I'd imagine even more independents next time.  The likes of the Monk, McGregor, etc.  Maybe even Steen might sneak in!!

[trileacman]

Sinn Fein are a political party with ideas of leading a government in the Dail. They received more or less the same vote share as FF and FG. How is it possible that they can't put forward a representative candidate of their own?

Surely it would have been tactically crazy for SF to run a candidate? Three reasons:

1.Given transfers will always go from FF to FG and reverse, then a SF candidate will always struggle. Similarly a SF backed candidate like Connolly could very well top the poll on first preferences and lose by a significant margin once the FFG transfers are distributed. Why would SF set themselves up for such a fall?

2. If SF are to have any hope of getting Mary Lou as Taoiseach, they will have to have a broad consensus of the left. This is the first time we have seen the left parties working so closely together and SF stand to gain most from that broad left co-operation/unity. Why would they jeopardise that strategy just to run their own candidate, who would likely not win anyway, for a powerless position?

3. In order to get SFs backing, a red line condition would have been that Connolly (or anyone else) would have to speak enthusiastically in support of a united Ireland in their campaign. Having Irish Unity being addressed and platformed by non-SF candidate only helps them create the impression that momementum is building towards a border poll.

Points 1 and 2 are plainly contradictory. If SF are building an Alliance on the left why could they not count on transfers from Connolly? Or the transfers from their candidate going to Connolly? FF and FG are content to split the government's vote with 2 candidates, how is that anymore tactically correct than SF backing Connolly.

Your biggest argument as I've highlighted in bold seems to be that SF are going to lose anyway so it's better not to run a candidate at all. A bizarre, incomprehensible position for a political party involved in democracy. A similar strategy would have been for them not to contest the last general election once it was apparent to them they weren't going to win.

Whilst the Presidential role is largely ceremonial, running a candidate for the position is very important for a large political party to be taken seriously. A Presidential campaign mobilises your grassroots supporters, indicates your party position on matters, encourages recognition of your party around the country and shows the electorate that you take the institutions of government seriously.

Points 1 & 2 are not contradictory. How could they on one hand say they are serious about trying to build an alliance on the left, and on the other hand refuse to endorse a left unity candidate for what is a politically useless position. Beating the FFG duopoly won't come about for SF by splitting the first preference vote. SF are historically not transfer friendly so running their own candidate, splitting the first preference votes and relying on transfers wouldn't have been the smartest. And to suggest that not running a candidate for a meaningless, ceremonial role is akin to not standing in a general election is just a plainly stupid thing to come out with.

You can argue all you want that their decision is not in the interests of democracy... such debates are always sparked by electoral pacts, but that didn't mean that it wasn't a tactically correct decision for then to have made.

And as for your contention that SF can't be taken seriously unless they run their own candidate for a ceremonial position.... what a load of complete and utter waffle. They are top of the polls north and south and are the largest party in Ireland. Like them or loathe them, they are already taken seriously. FFS just about everything FF does and says going back years is calculated against the threat posed to it by SF.

And some might say that putting their own party pride/ego first by running their own candidate, instead of doing something to build/strengthen the sort of co-operation among the left that could be crucial to their chances of leading the next government, would be the sign of a party that isn't serious about getting into government. I'd suggest this show of commitment to left unity is a clear signal that they are serious about getting MLMcD into the Taoiseachs office.

Pretty strange then for Ireland's biggest party who are "top of the polls north and south" not only to be unable to run a viable candidate for president but also unable to organise the left coalition's selection of a candidate. Connolly was chosen and supported by Labour and the Soc Dems who came together to get her nominated. SF then spent 2 months refusing to say if they would support her or field their own candidate. They fairly dragged their heels over it for that last 2 months before "committing to left unity".

More likely I would think is that the SF brass wanted to run their own candidate but off the back of a terrible presidential election in 2018 and a poor showing in last years general election MLMD knew she couldn't afford another bad result. Given that Connolly had hit the ground strongly she probably knew that a SF candidate coming in last in the first preference votes would spell the end of her leadership of SF.

Why is it so "strange"? They are not transfer friendly, and were going to be up against a FFG duopoly who will, one again, transfer to eachother. Given that it's an inconsequential, ceremonial, politically useless role, why would they risk jeopardising the sort of left unity/cooperation they will need if they are to lead the next government, just so that they can say they ran a candidate for the Aras?

You can argue all you want that they should have willyfully jeopardised their changes of leading the next government by running their own candidate for a meaningless office, but its beyond daft to deny that it would have been tactically crazy.

And as I previously stated, having a non-SF candidate loudly and enthusiastically speaking out for Irish reunification is undeniably in their interest as it allows them to argue that there is an increasing momentum for a border poll.

Clearly you don't like them, and clearly you don't like the decision they came to, but that shouldn't mean you can't admit that for them, it was the tactically right and obvious decision.

Political anorak Prof. David McCann said it on BBC talkback long before SF announced their endorsement of Connolly, that there was no chance of them running their own candidate, for the very same reasons I've stated above. The only surprise was that it took them so long to announce it.

As I said if it was such a tactical master stroke why did it take them 2 months to realise it?

If SF are Ireland's biggest party as you claim then it's strange they wouldn't seek to run for the office of Irish President.

If it's all been about lefty unity as you claim why have the Labour Party been sticking the boot into SF for not supporting Connolly from the start?


https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2025/09/04/labour-accuses-sinn-fein-of-dithering-on-approach-to-presidential-election-campaign/

Speaking in Co Tipperary on Thursday at Labour's think-in, Ms Bacik said it was "extraordinary" and "bizarre" that Sinn Féin had not yet reached a decision on running its own candidate or supporting another.

She said the party was "sitting on the sidelines, effectively waiting to see what way the wind blows" and that she did not think leaving the decision so late was appropriate.

[Armagh18]

Gavin fucked up badly on Palestine. If you'd vote for him after that you'd want your head looked at.

[Rossfan]

Do any/many people decide their vote on TV debates?