State of Minds last night - Linfield fans visit Clones

[SammyG]

I'm a Unionist, so I don't support a 32 county 'National Identity'. Surely it's not that difficult a concept to grasp, it is pretty much the definition of being a Unionist.

Why? Can you not be Irish and Unionist?

Yes you can, thanks for your intervention, do you have any comment on the actually discussion.

[SammyG]

It is indeed a good summation but it is far fro spurious. I'm excluded from joining a church because I'm an atheist, I'm exclued from joining the GAA because I'm a Unionist. The two things are directly comparable.

so sammy what about my ifa question. arent nationalists automatically excluded as the ifa is ni only?

The IFA have no political rules whatsoever.

[snatter]

I'm a Unionist, so I don't support a 32 county 'National Identity'. Surely it's not that difficult a concept to grasp, it is pretty much the definition of being a Unionist.

Why? Can you not be Irish and Unionist?

Donagh,

I'd refine the question put to Sammy as

CAN YOU NOT HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE PRESERVATION OF IRISH CULTURE AND BE UNIONIST?

A persons nationality after all is up to them, (two people born in the same street in NI can rightly define themselves as Irish or British) and the GAA does not tell people what nationality they are, rather it promotes Irish culture.

[SammyG]

Can you see the Unionist identity being preserved with respect and inclusion in an all-Ireland independent state?

If it ever happens (I'll be long dead so I won't be too worried about it) I'd imagine there would be constitutional changes, multi-governmental bodies etc to ensure that all traditions were respected.

[Donagh]

Yes you can, thanks for your intervention, do you have any comment on the actually discussion.

Jez Sammy don't be so tetchy. Am a bit busy today so don't have time to read through everything so was just interested about why your Unionism makes feel you have to oppose expressions of an Irish identity.

[Fishead_Sam]

Sammy forget about your exclusion or inclusion in the GAA, other than that what are your feelings towards the GAA from the 5 I have mentioned or your own along that general idea.

1. Bigoted
2. Got Exclusionary Rules but neither used in reality and membership dont care about them
3. Generally Inclusive
4. Very Inclusive
5. You dont really know a whole lot about the GAA other than a handbook

[snatter]

It is indeed a good summation but it is far fro spurious. I'm excluded from joining a church because I'm an atheist, I'm exclued from joining the GAA because I'm a Unionist. The two things are directly comparable.

so sammy what about my ifa question. arent nationalists automatically excluded as the ifa is ni only?

The IFA have no political rules whatsoever.

and neither do the gaa, muppet.
They promote irish cultural activities, primarily irish sports.
Nothing precludes anyone of any nationality or political persuasion, well nothing but their own bigotry or fears.

[SammyG]

Yes you can, thanks for your intervention, do you have any comment on the actually discussion.

Jez Sammy don't be so tetchy. Am a bit busy today so don't have time to read through everything so was just interested about why your Unionism makes feel you have to oppose expressions of an Irish identity.

Sorry it was meant to be sarcastic rather than tetchy. To answer your query for the millionth time I have no problem with being identified as Irish.

[An Fear Rua]

Does the Irish Rugby team represent (and therefore promote based on that representation) an Ireland of 32 counties/4 provinces?
Do you support that team?

Yes and Yes

so your problem with the following Basic Aim is what:

"Basic Aim
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its
basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a
32 County Ireland through the preservation and
promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."
I

I'm a Unionist, so I don't support a 32 county 'National Identity'. Surely it's not that difficult a concept to grasp, it is pretty much the definition of being a Unionist.

so what your saying is that you have a problem in Ireland being seen and promoted as a nation. You dont mind the rugby because its a team that doesnt represent a nation, just a gather up of peoples from a land mass , so obvioulsy youd be all in favour of a uk soccer team  on that basis too....

If you would just admit the GAA is a bit too fenian for you.... at least that would be honest

[snatter]

Yes you can, thanks for your intervention, do you have any comment on the actually discussion.

Jez Sammy don't be so tetchy. Am a bit busy today so don't have time to read through everything so was just interested about why your Unionism makes feel you have to oppose expressions of an Irish identity.

Sorry it was meant to be sarcastic rather than tetchy. To answer your query for the millionth time I have no problem with being identified as Irish.

And what has you nationality (and I could add politicc) have to do with joining the GAA?

See previous (as with my other points, as yet unaswered) post:

It is indeed a good summation but it is far fro spurious. I'm excluded from joining a church because I'm an atheist, I'm exclued from joining the GAA because I'm a Unionist. The two things are directly comparable.

so sammy what about my ifa question. arent nationalists automatically excluded as the ifa is ni only?

The IFA have no political rules whatsoever.

and neither do the gaa, muppet.
They promote irish cultural activities, primarily irish sports.
Nothing precludes anyone of any nationality or political persuasion, well nothing but their own bigotry or fears.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

SAMMYG's Inexhaustive list of 'Exclusions By Definition' (note to self: memorise by heart)

I cannot become:

An Asian... because I like fish and chips
An African... because I supported England against the Cameroon
A motor car... because I walk
A wasp... because I'm an atheist
A bee... because I like jam
A computer... because I count on my fingers
A table... because I have hair
A sky... because my eyes are brown
A song... because I hum

to be continued...

[snatter]

Sammy,

can your definition of Unionist join an irish dancing club, ie an organisation set up to promote aspects of irish culture?

[An Fear Rua]

leave him along now lads, he will come back out of the corner when he gets lonely.

Its plain to see the reasoning and rational in Sammys opinion of the GAA, hopefully some day it will become clear to him too.

[Fishead_Sam]

I just think its an awful shame An Fear Rua  he dosn't seem to understand the GAA mindset, when you playing, or @ a match or having a pint with another GAA person, if they Black/White, Catholic/Protestant etc, Man/Woman (well maybe if she good looking & ya got a shot), Unionist/Nationalist, Right/Left wing, FG/FF/SF/LAB/SDLP/PD/UUP etc. their other agendas don't matter I think you dont notice differences nearly at all. Maybe its just me but I think its a damn great organistation.

[snatter]

leave him along now lads, he will come back out of the corner when he gets lonely.

Its plain to see the reasoning and rational in Sammys opinion of the GAA, hopefully some day it will become clear to him too.

Nope,

Put the boot into him and expose him for the hypocritical liar that he is.
Face it, he's in denial and will never act as any sort of cultural ambassador to enhance the GAA's standing within the unionist community.

The only reason he's ever come over here is to try and hoodwink us into getting shafted and not getting equally treated in the gerat stadium debate.