Ulster's McKenna Cup

[thewobbler]

Why do counties need 3 pre season friendlies before taking part in a national league they've no interest in winning?

Have you ever managed a team? Surely you can see the benefits of the McKenna Cup? Maybe time to pick another sport

To be honest, I don't think you're applying much logic here.

It's the kind of groupthink that permeates Gaelic Games, and is driven by managers (and players) who will blame everyone and everything but themselves when seasons do not go their way. It falls from the same tree whereby one year people will tell you a competitive Ulster Championship is the best preparation for a run at an AI title, and the following year will tell you that the competitiveness of the Ulster Championship takes its toll on northern counties as the season moves on. It's all all f**king nonsense sound bite shit that people latch onto rather than accept they were beaten fairly and squarely.

Whether or not there is a McKenna Cup will have no bearing on anyone's season. Half of the players in that competition were traditionally discarded by the halfway point of the league. Which, oddly enough, roughly the same point when half the teams forget about the league and start planning for a championship they cannot win. And that's when their real shape, style and personnel begin to unfold.

The current January has roughly the same impact on a team's current season, as a January from 5 years ago.

[JoG2]

Why do counties need 3 pre season friendlies before taking part in a national league they've no interest in winning?

Have you ever managed a team? Surely you can see the benefits of the McKenna Cup? Maybe time to pick another sport

To be honest, I don't think you're applying much logic here.

It's the kind of groupthink that permeates Gaelic Games, and is driven by managers (and players) who will blame everyone and everything but themselves when seasons do not go their way. It falls from the same tree whereby one year people will tell you a competitive Ulster Championship is the best preparation for a run at an AI title, and the following year will tell you that the competitiveness of the Ulster Championship takes its toll on northern counties as the season moves on. It's all all f**king nonsense sound bite shit that people latch onto rather than accept they were beaten fairly and squarely.

Whether or not there is a McKenna Cup will have no bearing on anyone's season. Half of the players in that competition were traditionally discarded by the halfway point of the league. Which, oddly enough, roughly the same point when half the teams forget about the league and start planning for a championship they cannot win. And that's when their real shape, style and personnel begin to unfold.

The current January has roughly the same impact on a team's current season, as a January from 5 years ago.

That's the key word here...so you'll naturally go the other way.

The McKenna Cup, 3rd in the pecking order, has its benefits. It's football games at the end of the day, in the longest month of the year. While you maybe want to suck the life out of it, for many supporters, it's a welcome release. For managers there's multiple benefits, and for many players, it's a chance to either show what you're about, or for an established player to regain some fitness for the league ahead.
Just have a look at the attendances for the finals, often mid week, often a good distance to travel.

[thewobbler]

That's it. Groupthink is not evil. Dare to think differently and you're not real GAA. Even when correlation and causation are rarely seen as far apart as McKenna Cup success and AI success.

I mean who can forget the importance of the McKenna Cup in Tyrone's preparations for 2021 AI success?

Or how going to Donegal and getting mullered by a team who didn't even know eligibility guidelines, then tamely exiting in a semi-final, each proved pivotal in Armagh's 2024 AI success?

[Dreadnought]

For me the main thing is that it doesn't adjust the season farther. It is a groupthink as said above, and it's also a very easy whipping boy to show change while not making much at all. For some reason it was very easy to point to quasi challenge games and show they're the problem. If they are cancelled forever after next year, and January is still kept free for challenge matches behind closed doors, then I'll be annoyed but understand it.

But if they see a window and push League forward to mid January or something then that's a joke. We already play bulk of our games in Winter/Spring, and this will only push it more so. We'll end up losing a competition for the hardcore which is used as build up, only to fill the window with the actual real games and have a lot of teams playing essentially no games in good weather come June.

[general_lee]

f**k but there are some cynical bastards on here.

Who actually cares if counties field a forth string side in January? Who cares if they've no ambition of winning the National league?

What does it matter if it has zero impact on a teams performance in the summer?

The only difference from what I can see is that kids straight away get to wear their new gear that they got at Christmas to a county match.

It gets people like me out of the house in January when I'm at a loose end.

Dare I say it the Ulster Council might even make a few quid.

Probably most importantly though, players who have never represented their county might get to do so in front of paying supporters. Their families might actually get to see them pull on the county colours in flesh in an official match and maybe even on tv.

I know the prestige and enjoyment has gone from representing your county nowadays but these games will go ahead regardless, only they'll be behind closed doors in places like Garvaghey, Darver, the Dub etc

[JoG2]

That's it. Groupthink is not evil. Dare to think differently and you're not real GAA. Even when correlation and causation are rarely seen as far apart as McKenna Cup success and AI success.

I mean who can forget the importance of the McKenna Cup in Tyrone's preparations for 2021 AI success?

Or how going to Donegal and getting mullered by a team who didn't even know eligibility guidelines, then tamely exiting in a semi-final, each proved pivotal in Armagh's 2024 AI success?

You've the AI in one hand and the McKenna in the other, that's a ridiculous starting point tbh and having a pop at the league to boot. A very negative outlook on the GAA calendar

[thewobbler]

Okay so.

Looks like the argument "for" is changing direction. Just a couple of hours ago it was in support of valuable warm-up competition (one that managers did not want).

Now it's focusing on the personal and emotional pow-wow of "what is poor old me meant to do in January? Doesn't anyone think of me?"

Continue to call me a cynic. I don't really care. But anyone who thinks that in demanding another month of county season - played in the worst of  conditions, for the lowest of prizes in a competition that neither players nor management want - that they have some emotional upper hand in this debate, well to be honest you're halfway to the crazy house.

[Armagh18]

f**k but there are some cynical bastards on here.

Who actually cares if counties field a forth string side in January? Who cares if they've no ambition of winning the National league?

What does it matter if it has zero impact on a teams performance in the summer?

The only difference from what I can see is that kids straight away get to wear their new gear that they got at Christmas to a county match.

It gets people like me out of the house in January when I'm at a loose end.

Dare I say it the Ulster Council might even make a few quid.

Probably most importantly though, players who have never represented their county might get to do so in front of paying supporters. Their families might actually get to see them pull on the county colours in flesh in an official match and maybe even on tv.

I know the prestige and enjoyment has gone from representing your county nowadays but these games will go ahead regardless, only they'll be behind closed doors in places like Garvaghey, Darver, the Dub etc

Yeah well said, agree with this

[Dreadnought]

That's it. Groupthink is not evil. Dare to think differently and you're not real GAA. Even when correlation and causation are rarely seen as far apart as McKenna Cup success and AI success.

I mean who can forget the importance of the McKenna Cup in Tyrone's preparations for 2021 AI success?

Or how going to Donegal and getting mullered by a team who didn't even know eligibility guidelines, then tamely exiting in a semi-final, each proved pivotal in Armagh's 2024 AI success?

You've the AI in one hand and the McKenna in the other, that's a ridiculous starting point tbh and having a pop at the league to boot. A very negative outlook on the GAA calendar

How is it ridiculous? And how is it fixing anything really?

[Dreadnought]

f**k but there are some cynical bastards on here.

Who actually cares if counties field a forth string side in January? Who cares if they've no ambition of winning the National league?

What does it matter if it has zero impact on a teams performance in the summer?

The only difference from what I can see is that kids straight away get to wear their new gear that they got at Christmas to a county match.

It gets people like me out of the house in January when I'm at a loose end.

Dare I say it the Ulster Council might even make a few quid.

Probably most importantly though, players who have never represented their county might get to do so in front of paying supporters. Their families might actually get to see them pull on the county colours in flesh in an official match and maybe even on tv.

I know the prestige and enjoyment has gone from representing your county nowadays but these games will go ahead regardless, only they'll be behind closed doors in places like Garvaghey, Darver, the Dub etc

Fully agree with this

[JoG2]

That's it. Groupthink is not evil. Dare to think differently and you're not real GAA. Even when correlation and causation are rarely seen as far apart as McKenna Cup success and AI success.

I mean who can forget the importance of the McKenna Cup in Tyrone's preparations for 2021 AI success?

Or how going to Donegal and getting mullered by a team who didn't even know eligibility guidelines, then tamely exiting in a semi-final, each proved pivotal in Armagh's 2024 AI success?

You've the AI in one hand and the McKenna in the other, that's a ridiculous starting point tbh and having a pop at the league to boot. A very negative outlook on the GAA calendar

How is it ridiculous? And how is it fixing anything really?

Well, we'll have to see how 2025 pans out.
Counties won't be going into the 1st round of League without a few challenge games under their belt that's for sure, so what is it fixing? If the league starts mid Jan to allow for a break before the Anglo Celt, counties will be playing challenge matches throughout December. Div 1 teams will be desperate to stay in Div 1.Div 2 will want to survive / get promoted. Div 3 will desperately want to get into the top 2 leagues for the AI series.
All this doing is taking the crowds away from the games and giving the county secs alot more work

[imtommygunn]

Is December not a closed shop?

[JoG2]

Why do counties need 3 pre season friendlies before taking part in a national league they've no interest in winning?

Have you ever managed a team? Surely you can see the benefits of the McKenna Cup? Maybe time to pick another sport

To be honest, I don't think you're applying much logic here.

It's the kind of groupthink that permeates Gaelic Games, and is driven by managers (and players) who will blame everyone and everything but themselves when seasons do not go their way. It falls from the same tree whereby one year people will tell you a competitive Ulster Championship is the best preparation for a run at an AI title, and the following year will tell you that the competitiveness of the Ulster Championship takes its toll on northern counties as the season moves on. It's all all f**king nonsense sound bite shit that people latch onto rather than accept they were beaten fairly and squarely.

Whether or not there is a McKenna Cup will have no bearing on anyone's season. Half of the players in that competition were traditionally discarded by the halfway point of the league. Which, oddly enough, roughly the same point when half the teams forget about the league and start planning for a championship they cannot win. And that's when their real shape, style and personnel begin to unfold.

The current January has roughly the same impact on a team's current season, as a January from 5 years ago.

Ok, logic here. You're managing, Down. You've your first league game against Monaghan , Sun 19th Jan. How do you prepare your team in say the 4 weeks leading up to the 1st league game?

[general_lee]

Okay so.

Looks like the argument "for" is changing direction. Just a couple of hours ago it was in support of valuable warm-up competition (one that managers did not want).

Now it's focusing on the personal and emotional pow-wow of "what is poor old me meant to do in January? Doesn't anyone think of me?"

Continue to call me a cynic. I don't really care. But anyone who thinks that in demanding another month of county season - played in the worst of  conditions, for the lowest of prizes in a competition that neither players nor management want - that they have some emotional upper hand in this debate, well to be honest you're halfway to the crazy house.

The crux of my argument is as follows:
Regardless of how pointless you think the McKenna Cup is; in 4 months time the managers you say don't want to have matches in January will be busy mulling their eyes over players you say don't want to play for their county in January, doing exactly that; against other counties whose players and managers also supposedly don't want to be there. With the only difference being that they've picked the opposition themselves and they're played behind closed doors.

[imtommygunn]

McKenna cup very heavily used by ulster teams. It is IMO why teams in Ulster do better at the earlier stages in the leagues.

Leagues are not about winning yes - they're about getting promoted as high as you can and if division 1 staying there.