Armagh v Kerry

[Blowitupref]

Genuinely think Armagh have a decent chance of beating Kerry. O'Connor must have been spooked by Derry to set them up like that, if it's the same against Armagh then they could be in trouble because Armagh offer a huge amount more.

Kerry set up in similar way in the Div 1 encounter between the two last year. Kerry two points in added time allowed them to win 0-12 to 0-11.

[Captain Scarlet]

Jack O'connor has the medals to back up whatever he does and he is a man who would never be swayed.
If it gets dour so be it.

I think Armagh, mentally, can't go too stand-offish and get it slip away.

In my mind they need to go for it.

[greatpoint]

Genuinely think Armagh have a decent chance of beating Kerry. O'Connor must have been spooked by Derry to set them up like that, if it's the same against Armagh then they could be in trouble because Armagh offer a huge amount more.

Kerry set up in similar way in the Div 1 encounter between the two last year. Kerry two points in added time allowed them to win 0-12 to 0-11.

You'd imagine Armagh would be delighted to find themselves a point ahead going into injury time on Saturday.

[twohands!!!]

I think this article gives a very strong insight into the way Jack O'Connor is thinking.

JACK O'Connor and Kerry were never going to move unimpeded onto an All-Ireland SFC final four without poking through the entrails of that damned Derry quarter-final. With Gaelic football in the dock, O'Connor's good manners in meeting media on Monday presented the forum for further discussion on the state of the game.

When we left him in the media room in the bowels of Croke Park over a week ago, he said folk were living on the outer realms of sanity if they thought success went hand-in-hand with a pick-up sort of game, free-wheeling and fancy. Having watched their 0-15 to 0-10 victory back, he wasn't minded to change in that respect, but conceded Kerry weren't exactly at full throttle themselves.

Though, he explained, there might be historical reasons for such conservatism.

"I am well aware it was a very unattractive game, he reasoned. "Could we be better against that kind of set up? Absolutely. But remember, Kerry have got burned in the past against teams that set up like that.

"That set up is completely designed for you to give away the ball and the opposition to hit you on the counter attack. It's not a huge surprise that our players were a bit conservative, maybe a bit too careful at times with the ball. And maybe that aggravated people."

He added: "Remember it's only 2021 that Kerry came up against a similar set up against Tyrone in an All-Ireland semi-final, and had 33 turnovers and conceded three goals in that game. When you've been burned like that in the past ,it does possibly leave a bit of scar tissue.

"I am not saying we are tactical geniuses (now). Go back again to that game in 2021, before this management took over, you can't keep giving the ball back to the opposition like that and not expect to get punished for it.

"That (episode) informed a lot of our coaching in the couple of years since. The game has changed. Sure we would love to kick the ball first time into David Clifford, we'd love to kick in a few high ones. It's not living in the real world to expect us to be bombing the ball in like 2004 when we had Johnny Crowley, Dara O Cinnéide and Kieran Donaghy. A lot of the times they were one on one in there."

The sense that something not dissimilar awaits Kerry in Saturday's semi-final is Armagh does not demand a stretch of imagination, but O'Connor wasn't about to start advising the opposition how to milk their cows.

"I am not going to criticise any teams for setting up like that, they are not breaking the rules, as they stand. People are dissatisfied with the game, and we are not overly happy with the way it is either, but we have to play what is in front of us. Teams set up in the best way to give them their best chance of winning. I presume they will be solid defensively and play on the counter attack, but who knows, they might a more attack minded game. We have to be prepared to play it both ways.

"My sense is that Kerry supporters and observers in general believe that Kerry, or any team, can come out of the blocks and play barnstorming football, and blow oppositions away. That's absolutely not the real world, the way that teams are setting up at the moment."

Both before he took over in 2000, and when O'Connor was in the final year of his first term in 2006, Kerry and Armagh played a pair of ding-ding Croke Park battles, with the score 1-1.

"In that quarter final in 2006, we played Armagh in one of the most enjoyable games I have ever been involved in. That time you could walk around the back of the goals, which I did, because our backs were under ferocious pressure. The way Armagh were playing, with Steven McDonnell and Ronan Clarke inside, and Oisin McConville playing off them was fantastic football to watch and very effective. But you try to do that now, and more often than not the backs are going to be coming out with it purely on the basis of numbers.

"We'd love to go back to that era, that was an absolutely epic game, one of the games (outside of All-Irelands) that stands out in my head. But football has changed dramatically in the meantime and we had to change with it."

So the Derry affair is washed out of their hair at this stage? "Again, could we have been more energetic, and more adventurous, even with those constraints on the day? Of course, we could. But you can't blame the players, who had got burned against that sort of system in the past, for having to feel their way into the game. In the second half we got the mix and the balance a bit better.

"It was a very structured game, and we were thinking on the sideline that it was going to take some fella coming in here and doing something different. That's what Cillian Burke did, he hit straight lines and punched holes, the sort of stuff he's very good at. He was exactly the right man at the right time to break that system and structure that Derry had. That gave our fellas the lead and confidence to drive on and go for it."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41432407.html

[Captain Obvious]

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I'm both looking forward to this game...and not looking forward to it..

It's an All Ireland semi final, a new pairing in recent times, a throwback to the fantastic semis in 2000...but the prospect of it being similar to either of the quarter finals involving Armagh and Kerry means it could likely be a very tough watch.

There's definitely a possibility of a game breaking out and both teams have good players, pace, serious forwards and good players on the bench...unfortunately I think there's a conservative Kerry management and an Armagh management that have veered in the last few seasons between some great varied attacking football and dour counterattacking setup. It's a bit depressing in a way, so I hope it's better than what we say in quarter finals. Both teams COULD win by going at it, so we'll see.

[ardtole]

I'm suprised Cillian Burke isn't starting. I thought he impressed enough coming off the bench v Derry to secure a wing forward slot.

[Captain Scarlet]

That interviews again just shows O'Connor doesn't care how he wins, BUT as I said he has the Celtic Crosses to back him up.

Geezer's team are nearly men in recent years and they do seem to be always the ones on the wrong side of these nail-biters. I think they have to be in front earlier and will need to go for it.

No matter who you are if there is a feeling of it happening again they won't do it coming to the end. There HAS to be mental scars from the last few years there.

I am saying all this from wishful thinking as I am heading to the game and I'd love a ding-dong battle!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I'm suprised Cillian Burke isn't starting. I thought he impressed enough coming off the bench v Derry to secure a wing forward slot.

Dara Moynihan would have to be nearly dead before O'Connor would drop him..he's one of his favourites. Burke is a far superior player in every single facet of football of course and should be ahead of him. But there's 4/5 fellas that aren't even on Kerry panel that are better players than him. This is the problem some people in Kerry have with him at the moment.

[greatpoint]

That interviews again just shows O'Connor doesn't care how he wins, BUT as I said he has the Celtic Crosses to back him up.

Geezer's team are nearly men in recent years and they do seem to be always the ones on the wrong side of these nail-biters. I think they have to be in front earlier and will need to go for it.

No matter who you are if there is a feeling of it happening again they won't do it coming to the end. There HAS to be mental scars from the last few years there.

I am saying all this from wishful thinking as I am heading to the game and I'd love a ding-dong battle!

In his previous tenure as Kerry manager he very much cared about how he won. Him embracing defensive football is a new departure.

[blanketattack]

I'm suprised Cillian Burke isn't starting. I thought he impressed enough coming off the bench v Derry to secure a wing forward slot.

Dara Moynihan would have to be nearly dead before O'Connor would drop him..he's one of his favourites. Burke is a far superior player in every single facet of football of course and should be ahead of him. But there's 4/5 fellas that aren't even on Kerry panel that are better players than him. This is the problem some people in Kerry have with him at the moment.

Dara Moynihan has specific jobs for Kerry, one of which is retaining position and he has become very dependable in that role.
Cillian Burke is more direct, more reward but also more risk of turnover.
Dara Moynihan is having one of his best seasons so would be hard to drop.
If Kerry are in trouble with long kickouts Burke might come on to help in that department.

[grounded]

Armagh 3/1 tomorrow. Surely value in that.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I'm suprised Cillian Burke isn't starting. I thought he impressed enough coming off the bench v Derry to secure a wing forward slot.

Dara Moynihan would have to be nearly dead before O'Connor would drop him..he's one of his favourites. Burke is a far superior player in every single facet of football of course and should be ahead of him. But there's 4/5 fellas that aren't even on Kerry panel that are better players than him. This is the problem some people in Kerry have with him at the moment.

Dara Moynihan has specific jobs for Kerry, one of which is retaining position and he has become very dependable in that role.
Cillian Burke is more direct, more reward but also more risk of turnover.
Dara Moynihan is having one of his best seasons so would be hard to drop.
If Kerry are in trouble with long kickouts Burke might come on to help in that department.

I disagree massively on Moynihan anyway, he excels in no aspect of the game as far as I'm concerned. He's useless on breaking ball, is very little threat going forward and poor in the tackle. I don't see it with him and I'm not alone there. If I was an opposition I woudn't worry about him too much.

Jack never takes him off until very late in game usually and with others he will whip them at half time if things aren't going well. It's annoying but not much we can do except hope Burke, Killian Spillane etc can make an impact and get on early enough (like Derry game in fairness) to do so.

[tiempo]

Armagh 3/1 tomorrow. Surely value in that.

Would definitely call that value

[Rossfan]

Armagh 3/1 tomorrow. Surely value in that.

Not if Kerry win