Ulster Senior football championship 2024

[thewobbler]

It's not lazy analysis Tonto.

Armagh sat back deeper and counter attacked with fewer numbers after going 4 ahead.

Armagh took the easy point ahead of the clear goal opportunity.

Armagh refused two kickable marks in preference for clock killing.

Armagh were 2 ahead in extra time and then went into hiding. Witness Donegal's last or second last point were most Armagh players drifted across to the left-half back position - with no attempt  to make contact - and left the other half open. 

Armagh have better players than Donegal, more experienced players than Donegal and better conditioned players than Donegal. But a fear of losing strangled them once again.

Looking for other reasons for them not winning is wrong.

[JoG2]

It's not lazy analysis Tonto.

Armagh sat back deeper and counter attacked with fewer numbers after going 4 ahead.

Armagh took the easy point ahead of the clear goal opportunity.

Armagh refused two kickable marks in preference for clock killing.

Armagh were 2 ahead in extra time and then went into hiding. Witness Donegal's last or second last point were most Armagh players drifted across to the left-half back position - with no attempt  to make contact - and left the other half open. 

Armagh have better players than Donegal, more experienced players than Donegal and better conditioned players than Donegal. But a fear of losing strangled them once again.

Looking for other reasons for them not winning is wrong.

I'd disagree. Donegal @ CP a few weeks ago defended and ran at Derry constantly for 70+ minutes.

Ciaran Thompson
2 McDonnells
McHugh
Ban Gallagher
Oisin Gallen
Langan etc.. All been there and done it in Ulster

If they have a fear of losing that you gleefully seem to talk about, then they aren't better players. Better players pull it out of the bag when needed.

Armagh score more penalties than Derry / Donegal in '23 /' 24, they're double Ulster champions (extremely fine margins), all of a sudden they are big game players, not afraid,and you talk about lazy analysis. Again, you must have operated at some level in big finals with all the pressure that comes with it to be such an authority on the subject

[APM]

Did Armagh do anything overly different in the last quarter compared to the rest of the game. Not really. They sat back and defended they whole way through. They gave Donegal the kickout the whole way through. They were patient in attack the whole way through.

Difference was they were turned over a number of times in the Donegal half. Mackin following a loose pass that skidded away from him, McCabe in the corner, Campbell (off the ground that wasn't). They had a couple of shots drop short and a couple of wides.

Was a period of Donegal dominance not to be expected? They also got a couple of outrageous scores. They are two evenly matched teams after all.

[lurganblue]

Gutting yet again. I dont think a single Armagh supporter expected us to either pull away or not let them back into it when we went 4 up in the 2nd half.  It's what we do.  The same applies for going 2 up in ET. Did we not do the same v Derry last year?  A lead seems to suck us into our shell. 

The score taking on the day from both sides was excellent, but particularly Donegal. The were very efficient.  That said, Armagh seemed to allow shots from 40m+ on occasion, almost in hope that this would be outside range or a low percentage shot.  Donegal ate them chances up.  Donegal also seemed to pick holes in our defensive shape with some lovely runs and fist passes around the D.

That's 5 times I have watched Armagh lose on penalties.  You can say that they're a lotto, but when you are 5 nil down it's not just bad luck. In general the Donegal penalties were much better than ours. IMO a very strange decision to put Shane forward for pens when he hasnt kicked a competitive ball in months.  Felt for him. 

[marty34]

Anybody have the shot/score efficiency in the first and second halves and then overall?


Seemed to be very good, especially in the first half.


That's how you do it.  Practice the long range shooting under pressure.  Do it in training and it makes teams come out a bit if you can shoot, with accuracy, from well outside the 'D'.

[Gael80]

It's not lazy analysis Tonto.

Armagh sat back deeper and counter attacked with fewer numbers after going 4 ahead.

Armagh took the easy point ahead of the clear goal opportunity.

Armagh refused two kickable marks in preference for clock killing.

Armagh were 2 ahead in extra time and then went into hiding. Witness Donegal's last or second last point were most Armagh players drifted across to the left-half back position - with no attempt  to make contact - and left the other half open. 

Armagh have better players than Donegal, more experienced players than Donegal and better conditioned players than Donegal. But a fear of losing strangled them once again.

Looking for other reasons for them not winning is wrong.

I'd disagree. Donegal @ CP a few weeks ago defended and ran at Derry constantly for 70+ minutes.

Ciaran Thompson
2 McDonnells
McHugh
Ban Gallagher
Oisin Gallen
Langan etc.. All been there and done it in Ulster

If they have a fear of losing that you gleefully seem to talk about, then they aren't better players. Better players pull it out of the bag when needed.

Armagh score more penalties than Derry / Donegal in '23 /' 24, they're double Ulster champions (extremely fine margins), all of a sudden they are big game players, not afraid,and you talk about lazy analysis. Again, you must have operated at some level in big finals with all the pressure that comes with it to be such an authority on the subject

Penalties are a cruel way to decide finals and it comes down to a lot of luck.

Well done to both set of players yesterday, I wouldn't say one has a better group of players than the other, they couldn't be more even and I thought it was a good final.

Armagh were stronger for 55 minutes and like the Tyrone game I thought Donegal were losing the tactical battle.

They finish stronger though and Donegal's conditioning appears to be on a different level - it'll be interesting if they can maintain that during the All Ireland series.

Armagh will be gutted but a bad team doesn't lose two Ulster finals and two All Ireland QF's on penalties, they are competing and taking very good teams to the brink. I think Armagh will be back in a All Ireland QF and maybe those small margins will go their way.

[tonto1888]

Did Armagh do anything overly different in the last quarter compared to the rest of the game. Not really. They sat back and defended they whole way through. They gave Donegal the kickout the whole way through. They were patient in attack the whole way through.

Difference was they were turned over a number of times in the Donegal half. Mackin following a loose pass that skidded away from him, McCabe in the corner, Campbell (off the ground that wasn't). They had a couple of shots drop short and a couple of wides.

Was a period of Donegal dominance not to be expected? They also got a couple of outrageous scores. They are two evenly matched teams after all.

This is the point I was trying to make. We didn't do much different at all. Donegal just upped their game, got a couple great scores and momentum shifted

[snoopdog]

Armagh extremely unlucky to not win at least 1 of those pen shootouts this last 2 years. I think McGeeney  is getting thr best out of what he has at his disposal. Can anyone else get anymore I doubt it to be honest. Kildare thought a change if management would push them on but it didn't, McGeeney got the best out of them also. Armagh should stick with him in my opinion. And I'm not an Armagh man. Your competitive with every team you go up against. Can't ask for much more than that.

[Keyser soze]

That was a great watch, fair play to both teams for a brilliant effort, that could have gone either way. Horrible for Armagh players [and supporters] but that's sport I spose.  Unbelievable that there are posters saying that was a poor quality game!

Can't fathom why 2 Armagh players refused a mark to win the game with time nearly up.

Penalties no way to decide a game, better to keep playing periods of extra time until there's a winner IMO.

Armagh are there or thereabouts, I would say McGeeney has them at near their max on most days out. He mightn't be the best manager about but for sure there a plenty worse. For those of you who want him out and there are plenty on here, who is coming in to replace him that's obviously better?

It is easy to talk the talk but if that translated into the real world there are a couple of guys on this board who would be doing goals for Armagh in a penalty shootout lol

PS Soupy Campbell is one of the most exciting players to watch I have ever seen.

[general_lee]

I semi expected ET & losing on penalties ahead of the match yesterday, just wish I'd have put money on it.

A lot of flak for McGeeney from some quarters, it's fine margins and had we got that little bit of luck yesterday (and last year) we could easily be having a different conversation today.

I don't know what else he could have done differently from the sideline other than team selection but that's a different conversation.

Don't take away from Donegal either, they're a f**king good team under Jim so this nonsense about Armagh being 4 points up with 10+ minutes remaining and not seeing it out is a disservice to them. They came at Armagh and reeled them in. I certainly didn't think it was a forgone conclusion at 15-11. Good teams do that, you don't need a psychologist to come and tell you that.

[imtommygunn]

That's the best armagh have played in a big game. I honestly think McGeeney did a great job there. It was fine margins.

[Taylor]

That was a great watch, fair play to both teams for a brilliant effort, that could have gone either way. Horrible for Armagh players [and supporters] but that's sport I spose.  Unbelievable that there are posters saying that was a poor quality game!

Can't fathom why 2 Armagh players refused a mark to win the game with time nearly up.

Penalties no way to decide a game, better to keep playing periods of extra time until there's a winner IMO.

Armagh are there or thereabouts, I would say McGeeney has them at near their max on most days out. He mightn't be the best manager about but for sure there a plenty worse. For those of you who want him out and there are plenty on here, who is coming in to replace him that's obviously better?

It is easy to talk the talk but if that translated into the real world there are a couple of guys on this board who would be doing goals for Armagh in a penalty shootout lol

PS Soupy Campbell is one of the most exciting players to watch I have ever seen.

Cpuld it be that they were afraid of missing and giving posession back to Donegal?

Given the scoring ration to shots the chances are Donegal would have scored one of them - perhaps the Amragh players felt the shot they were oging to tae had to be low risk rather than a mark from a difficult position

[ranch]

Absolutely sickner again but should have taken the marks to try and push further ahead rather than playing keep ball. Unless we win the AI that was prob our best chance of silverware. Maybe it's time for Geezer and Mckeever to give someone else a go next year?

From memory the score was level when the marks happened. It was probably a case that the players in question thought they were low percentage shots and keeping the ball may help them get a better opportunity. They weren't keeping the ball to kill the game. I understood Jarly Og not shooting if he wasn't comfortable, soupy not shooting was a strange one. Kelly's at the end wasn't a bad effort, but he'd be disappointed he missed it.

[Applesisapples]

Armagh fold again on Penalties, Why was Rian O'Neil taken off. Awful way to lose a game. Some Armagh supporters argue that's that a draw! 4 point up with 20 mins to go, Armagh went bck into their shell instead pushing on.

This time Armagh did not fold, good save to win it. Rian couldn't walk at full time, physio was working on him he had run out of gas. Why Oisin doesn't start or come in earlier is a mystery. But Donaghy telling Jarly Og to recycle a mark that was scoreable  points to a mindset that leads to losing games. Twice at least they had the game won and then stopped doing what was working for them. Players running into dead ends and not taking opportunities points to that  same mindset. Something needs to change, if not McGeeney then the back room. They need a change of direction. Some incredible scores yesterday from both teams, fair play Donegal they found a a way.

[AustinPowers]

That was a great watch, fair play to both teams for a brilliant effort, that could have gone either way. Horrible for Armagh players [and supporters] but that's sport I spose.  Unbelievable that there are posters saying that was a poor quality game!

Can't fathom why 2 Armagh players refused a mark to win the game with time nearly up.

Penalties no way to decide a game, better to keep playing periods of extra time until there's a winner IMO.

Armagh are there or thereabouts, I would say McGeeney has them at near their max on most days out. He mightn't be the best manager about but for sure there a plenty worse. For those of you who want him out and there are plenty on here, who is coming in to replace him that's obviously better?

It is easy to talk the talk but if that translated into the real world there are a couple of guys on this board who would be doing goals for Armagh in a penalty shootout lol

PS Soupy Campbell is one of the most exciting players to watch I have ever seen.

Really?

Campbell puts in a  good shift , and is usually worth a point or two , but  I'm  hardly on  the edge of my seat when  he's on the ball. 

There are more exciting players on that  team, namely  Murnin and  Grugan. Turbitt  and  Conaty as well. Rian O Néill  can be unplayable , but  he is a liability at times.  Some really silly  fouls and  getting involved in  needless situations