Is University worth it?

[armaghniac]

For people suited to university education, it is certainly worth it. However, that does not imply that everyone is suited to university education. Unchallenging courses that just allow people hang around for 3 or 4 years are not necessarily a good use of public funds.

[NAG1]

For people suited to university education, it is certainly worth it. However, that does not imply that everyone is suited to university education. Unchallenging courses that just allow people hang around for 3 or 4 years are not necessarily a good use of public funds.

What public funds, the students are paying for it through the nose and getting a pretty poor service for it from what I can see.

[Kidder81]

For people suited to university education, it is certainly worth it. However, that does not imply that everyone is suited to university education. Unchallenging courses that just allow people hang around for 3 or 4 years are not necessarily a good use of public funds.

What public funds, the students are paying for it through the nose and getting a pretty poor service for it from what I can see.

I believe University places are also funded by Stormont ?

[seafoid]

I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

Not sure about where you went to college but when I was in Belfast there was very little interest in developing critical thinking and analytical skills. 9 hour per week contact time with courses fosters time in the bar not time engaged in critical thinking!

Groupthinking is far more popular

[grounded]

You need a balance between apprenticeships and university and tech colleges IMO

I think the German system is more balanced.

https://vocationaleducation.weebly.com/structure-of-german-education.html#:~:text=Schooling%20in%20Germany%20is%20free,at%20age%20ten%20to%20sixteen.

Also whether we like to admit it or not the public still has a snobbish opinion when it comes to a University education here.
         

[markl121]

Having done a uni course that results in an actual job at the end of it, I'm still think it's mad what you actually get for your money. I had maybe three days of lectures a week and one or two lab based things on the other days. The lectures were written years ago and the lecture read them off the screen, if you didn't go you didn't really miss anything. Research is king in university and it's often what the lecturer cares about, not really about the students who pay to go there.
I can stomach it because I ended up with a good job out of it, but it's staggering that other people doing random degrees were paying the same money and coming out with nothing lined up.
When I was in sixth form at school queens we're doing the round of the local schools promoting a criminology degree, whereby it was marketed like a CSI job and of course everyone was interested. Until someone had the wit to ask were there many jobs?
None in the north anyway, maybe one or two in England.
My brothers wife is from China and paid 17k a year I believe to go to queens for a business degree. It's absolutely wild

[armaghniac]

For people suited to university education, it is certainly worth it. However, that does not imply that everyone is suited to university education. Unchallenging courses that just allow people hang around for 3 or 4 years are not necessarily a good use of public funds.

What public funds, the students are paying for it through the nose and getting a pretty poor service for it from what I can see.

In the UK, most students get loans and many do not pay these back, which is what is bugging Sunak.

[bennydorano]

The competition for apprenticeships (HLA's in NI) is getting ferocious. I've one at Uni and 2 younger ones who are flat out with the HLA chat. Interview skills are going to be so much more important for the HLA generation.

[Eamonnca1]

Caveat: I was the last generation to get student grants, and there was no concept of having to pay for tuition. So my financial decision was a lot different from today's students.

My job didn't exist when I was in Uni. It's not always about picking up specific technical skills, especially in fields like computing that change so fast that the skills you pick up in uni are obsolete by the time you graduate. It's more about learning how to learn and how to keep your skills up to date, plus the teamworking and communication abilities that are hugely important and are what really make you employable.

And there is technical know-how that can be the foundation of future skills - for example I don't think it's terribly important which programming language you learn, because the underlying concepts are the same across a lot of languages and the syntax is quite similar. Programming languages are more like programming dialects IMHO. Once you learn one, it's easy to pick up another.

A good foundation in maths can teach you how to solve problems in a way that no other subject can. Statistics is the foundation of big data analytics, AI, and a lot of the technologies that are quite hot at the minute.

In the end I didn't really use my degree for its intended purpose, but I think this is common and it doesn't really matter. When I look at the Linkedin profiles of a lot of senior management I sometimes see people with arts and humanities degrees.

One thing I find a bit concerning is the idea that you're a loser if you don't go to uni and if you end up doing blue-collar work. I find that an insulting attitude given my working class roots. We used to have teachers saying that we're supposed to go out and get "good jobs" and not go outside to work as builders or labourers. My parents worked hard all their lives and earned a good enough living to support us. They did important work that needed to get done.

I once knew someone who sat in the truck with his son for a day watching mechanics at work across the street. This was supposed to scare him into going to uni and getting a good job so he didn't end up like those plebs working at cars. I'll bet the same fella would also be the first to complain if there was a long wait to get his car fixed.

In the US we don't value blue collar work half enough. Politicians brag about "how far they've come" when the son of a fruit picker gets elected, but I'd prefer it if we'd value the fruit picker for the work they do, not a baseline that makes ourselves look better.

My wife once had an intern working with her. He was a young cub who said he wanted to go to uni and study mechanical engineering, because that's what his school was pushing him to do. She gave him a handful of jobs to do that involved making phone calls and notifying businesses about upcoming construction projects, but he wasn't very good at it. Anything that involved operating a computer, writing anything down, reading anything, or communicating was just beyond him. There was no way he was going to make it at university, but he wanted to go because he wanted to be a mechanic. My wife told him that he doesn't need a degree for that kind of work, he needs an apprenticeship that'd be a lot more use to him and wouldn't saddle him with a load of unpayable debt. (Student debt in the US is vicious, even if you declare bankruptcy it can be hard to get out of paying it.) He was keen to learn to work on cars, or to work with his uncle who builds houses, so a spell in a community college learning a trade would be far better for him. But you try explaining that to his teachers who think a university degree is the only answer.

Higher education isn't for everyone, and not everyone should be in higher education.

[Eamonnca1]

I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

Not sure about where you went to college but when I was in Belfast there was very little interest in developing critical thinking and analytical skills. 9 hour per week contact time with courses fosters time in the bar not time engaged in critical thinking!

I went to a local Tech before I went to Uni. There I learned how to BS. They rewarded you for waffling on for six pages where one would do, and they'd punish you for being concise, getting to the point, and answering the question. I learned all sorts of tricks like writing a sentence, and then writing the same thing again using different words, just to pad it out as much as possible.

It must be an NI thing. Half the tutors in there were former civil servants, and they were the ones that wanted the maximum BS. There was a computer technician that used to berate me for "wasting my time" using the computers for stuff that wasn't relevant to my course. I was playing with 3D modelling, something that wasn't relevant to my course but became hugely important in my career later. They could be a bit closed-minded and bureaucratic sometimes.

[armaghniac]

The competition for apprenticeships (HLA's in NI) is getting ferocious. I've one at Uni and 2 younger ones who are flat out with the HLA chat. Interview skills are going to be so much more important for the HLA generation.

Perhaps that is a function of not having enough places or pathways. Interview skills are not necessarily relevant to be a mechanic or plumber, maybe they should give you something to dismantle and reassemble instead.

[bennydorano]

The competition for apprenticeships (HLA's in NI) is getting ferocious. I've one at Uni and 2 younger ones who are flat out with the HLA chat. Interview skills are going to be so much more important for the HLA generation.

Perhaps that is a function of not having enough places or pathways. Interview skills are not necessarily relevant to be a mechanic or plumber, maybe they should give you something to dismantle and reassemble instead.

The HLA path is relatively new, it's more along the lines of once traditional Uni route jobs like accountancy/engineering etc..  it's in addition to the traditional apprenticeship route.

[AustinPowers]

Schools are obsessed with it, which is a big problem. They like having the stats. My school it wasn't an option to even considering leaving at 16 and doing a trade. Probably why I'd say at least 1/3 of us struggled with uni and changed course or dropped out. There's a huge void of people my age doing trades

Yeah I'd agree  with that.  I'd say most who do a levels  have  no idea what they  want to do so just apply for a few courses , and  see which one they  can get  into. Doing trades is nearly frowned upon at some schools , and leaving after GCSE 's  looks a bit  like you're some sort of failure . 

The whole school  curriculum is wrong in my opinion. Too much  book work and not enough  practical.  I have nieces and nephews in secondary school , and so many hours a week they do  bricklaying, electrical, joinery,  plumbing , and hairdressing.  I was glad to hear  it.  Most leave school and  get no experience of things like  that.

[Milltown Row2]

All well and good getting an apprenticeship in say bricklaying but you will need to put money away for a new hip, knee ops and arthritis in the hands!!

[pbat]

I went to UUJ in the late 90s but dropped out after first year. Two years ago I decided to get the degree as I wanted to get off the site's and into consultancy or a government job(In the South) but no matter how much practical knowledge and experience I had the lack of qualifications stood in my way.

I've now two years completed and going into final year in September as a part time student in the University of Ulster and I'm furious with UU. Paying 6500 a year and you cant get a response to emails, you have to send 3-4 more mails to get an answer. You struggle to get meetings with staff, lectures are cancelled last minute. I know when I was 18 these things wouldn't have bothered me as it would have been the parents money, but at 44 year old spending my own money I'm disgusted with what they're providing.

The past year as a part time student I had 6 hours of lectures on a Monday, the lads on the same course full time only had 3 hrs on a Thursday more than me. Nothing on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Friday so when I look at these young ones renting digs in Belfast for that is crazy. I know if I had young ones I wouldn't be pushing them for a full time degree at uni having a birds eye view of it as a mature student. There's so may better options such as apprenticeships with degrees.