Author Topic: Man Utd Thread:  (Read 3357379 times)

TabClear

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48015 on: January 20, 2020, 08:48:02 AM »
I understand the frustration from some over the decision on DeGea but whether we like it or not, keepers have been getting decisions like this for years. I was surprised in real time a free wasn't given. Also thought VAR should have looked at Maguire getting blocked off for the first goal. It's not gaelic football.....frees are given for the smallest things in soccer.

I would be in the same camp Seanie in terms of being surprised the free was not given initially (albeit I dont agree with it, I think keepers are massively overprotected). The issue I have is on how the VAR ref decided that it met the "clear and obvious error" threshold. The commentators said that VAR had advised VVD was not going for the ball which is ridiculous. It does just highlight the subjectivity with VAR, how the Everton goal could be allowed to stand after VAR review when there was clearly an arm across DeGea's face yet yesterday's chalked off is bizzare.


nrico2006

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48016 on: January 20, 2020, 08:53:17 AM »
United started off all right and then conceded a goal from yet another lapse in concentration on a set piece. Correct call to disallow that 2nd goal as DeGea was fouled.  United have probably missed their best chance of scoring with Pereira missing that sitter. I'd still be surprised if this game doesn't finish in a 2 or 3-0 defeat.
You're delusional.

De Gea shown up as a poor keeper again with that. Too easily put off the ball. It wasn’t a foul. Goal should have stood.
Exactly. Didnt jump with his elbows up, eyes were always on the ball and made a genuine attempt to challenge for it. Disallowing that was a disgrace. Ah well, comfortable victory.

But its still a foul, just because your eyes are on the ball doesn't make it a fair tackle.  Its no different than two outfield players coming together, if you have your 'eyes on the ball' and go in for a slide tackle for example, collide with the opposition but don't make any contact with the ball then its a free kick.  Same logic in the De Gea incident.
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magpie seanie

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48017 on: January 20, 2020, 08:54:06 AM »
I understand the frustration from some over the decision on DeGea but whether we like it or not, keepers have been getting decisions like this for years. I was surprised in real time a free wasn't given. Also thought VAR should have looked at Maguire getting blocked off for the first goal. It's not gaelic football.....frees are given for the smallest things in soccer.

I would be in the same camp Seanie in terms of being surprised the free was not given initially (albeit I dont agree with it, I think keepers are massively overprotected). The issue I have is on how the VAR ref decided that it met the "clear and obvious error" threshold. The commentators said that VAR had advised VVD was not going for the ball which is ridiculous. It does just highlight the subjectivity with VAR, how the Everton goal could be allowed to stand after VAR review when there was clearly an arm across DeGea's face yet yesterday's chalked off is bizzare.


I think everyone would agree the whole VAR system has been a mess. Couldn't have done a worse job of it in my view.

laoislad

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48018 on: January 20, 2020, 09:05:25 AM »
United started off all right and then conceded a goal from yet another lapse in concentration on a set piece. Correct call to disallow that 2nd goal as DeGea was fouled.  United have probably missed their best chance of scoring with Pereira missing that sitter. I'd still be surprised if this game doesn't finish in a 2 or 3-0 defeat.
You're delusional.

De Gea shown up as a poor keeper again with that. Too easily put off the ball. It wasn’t a foul. Goal should have stood.
Exactly. Didnt jump with his elbows up, eyes were always on the ball and made a genuine attempt to challenge for it. Disallowing that was a disgrace. Ah well, comfortable victory.

But its still a foul, just because your eyes are on the ball doesn't make it a fair tackle.  Its no different than two outfield players coming together, if you have your 'eyes on the ball' and go in for a slide tackle for example, collide with the opposition but don't make any contact with the ball then its a free kick.  Same logic in the De Gea incident.
Pity that logic didnt apply when Origi was fouled in the build up to the United goal at Old Trafford....
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TabClear

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48019 on: January 20, 2020, 09:16:08 AM »
United started off all right and then conceded a goal from yet another lapse in concentration on a set piece. Correct call to disallow that 2nd goal as DeGea was fouled.  United have probably missed their best chance of scoring with Pereira missing that sitter. I'd still be surprised if this game doesn't finish in a 2 or 3-0 defeat.
You're delusional.

De Gea shown up as a poor keeper again with that. Too easily put off the ball. It wasn’t a foul. Goal should have stood.
Exactly. Didnt jump with his elbows up, eyes were always on the ball and made a genuine attempt to challenge for it. Disallowing that was a disgrace. Ah well, comfortable victory.

But its still a foul, just because your eyes are on the ball doesn't make it a fair tackle.  Its no different than two outfield players coming together, if you have your 'eyes on the ball' and go in for a slide tackle for example, collide with the opposition but don't make any contact with the ball then its a free kick.  Same logic in the De Gea incident.

Dont agree with that. You are allowed contact when challenging for the ball without it being a foul. Even more so in the case of an aerial challenge. Goalkeepers do get protected to an extent because they are more exposed as typically they do not have their arms to protect themselves. However, as I said VVD could not have done more to not "foul".  I actually laughed at a comment on Sky yesterday where one commentator/pundit said De Gea should have been more physical and put his the knees up into VVD. Why would that not have been a foul?

Maroon Manc

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48020 on: January 20, 2020, 01:25:52 PM »
Yesterdays result was to be expected, United played better than I anticipated. I don't know how long Ole is going to persist with zonal marking from set pieces but its about time he realised its not working, we've got no chancing of climbing the table if we keep conceding soft goals which has been a terrible habit for the last 2 months. I keep saying it but Lindelof & Maguire isn't a partnership I like, lack of real pace is an issue especially when chasing games.

Rashford injury is a huge blow, I think its more likely the middle of April before we see him again. The lack of strength in depth is going to really hurt United but most sensible reds knew this was a problem at the beginning of the season.  Looks like missing out on Haaland was a huge blow, no idea which way they turn now. Woodward is a disgrace, this is his 7th year in the job and his tenure has been a disaster.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 02:00:18 PM by Maroon Manc »

GiveItToTheShooters

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48021 on: January 20, 2020, 01:38:53 PM »
United started off all right and then conceded a goal from yet another lapse in concentration on a set piece. Correct call to disallow that 2nd goal as DeGea was fouled.  United have probably missed their best chance of scoring with Pereira missing that sitter. I'd still be surprised if this game doesn't finish in a 2 or 3-0 defeat.
You're delusional.

De Gea shown up as a poor keeper again with that. Too easily put off the ball. It wasn’t a foul. Goal should have stood.
Exactly. Didnt jump with his elbows up, eyes were always on the ball and made a genuine attempt to challenge for it. Disallowing that was a disgrace. Ah well, comfortable victory.

But its still a foul, just because your eyes are on the ball doesn't make it a fair tackle.  Its no different than two outfield players coming together, if you have your 'eyes on the ball' and go in for a slide tackle for example, collide with the opposition but don't make any contact with the ball then its a free kick.  Same logic in the De Gea incident.
No its not. Van dijk is entitled to challenge and De gea dropped it, hes useless under the high ball as everyone knows. The united teams reaction as the ball hit the net was a major factor in VAR bailing them out, again.

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48022 on: January 20, 2020, 03:20:24 PM »
Yesterdays result was to be expected, United played better than I anticipated. I don't know how long Ole is going to persist with zonal marking from set pieces but its about time he realised its not working, we've got no chancing of climbing the table if we keep conceding soft goals which has been a terrible habit for the last 2 months. I keep saying it but Lindelof & Maguire isn't a partnership I like, lack of real pace is an issue especially when chasing games.

Rashford injury is a huge blow, I think its more likely the middle of April before we see him again. The lack of strength in depth is going to really hurt United but most sensible reds knew this was a problem at the beginning of the season. Looks like missing out on Haaland was a huge blow, no idea which way they turn now. Woodward is a disgrace, this is his 7th year in the job and his tenure has been a disaster.
Exactly. This situation was entirely predictable, almost inevitable at start of season. Solskjaer butchered the squad and failed to get in proper replacements. But he gets a free pass from so many fans and pundits. People on here were saying replacing experienced, quality players with fresh air I think was the line, was good business. I think some of his chickens are coming home to roost a bit.
 Utd need to be careful with their next move. See Neville is calling for gap fillers to be signed immediately to alleviate the "crisis". Before it was culling, resetting and not rushing into signings. And he accuses the board of flip flopping.
 The Norwegian does need backing by the board though but they have to be strategic with whatever they sign and not reactionary. At this stage the damage is already done. Rashford injury is a setback but realistically he has been a bit of a surprise bonus this season and bigger holes lie elsewhere.
 I suppose it's hard to say at this stage what they should do. The lure of top 4 is still there so do they sign with that in mind and worry about possible fallout next season? Or do they sign with a long term replacement strategy (Pogba,Martial?) in mind ignoring immediate positional problems and be prepared to treat the rest of the season as a free hit, risking writing it off, but having guys in the squad ready to hit the ground running in September.
 I'm sure they're wet under the collar over it. With every passing transfer window they're becoming less of a lure for the top talented footballers. So new contracts will come with a bit more of a premium. Even domestically, they cannot raid the top teams in the league for talent anymore like they used to. There's bigger attractions for young ambitious footballers elsewhere. So they'll need a bit of luck and a big cheque book to sort themselves out over the next season or two. But TBH, I'd have zero confidence in the man at the wheel. 

Maroon Manc

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48023 on: January 20, 2020, 03:54:59 PM »
Yesterdays result was to be expected, United played better than I anticipated. I don't know how long Ole is going to persist with zonal marking from set pieces but its about time he realised its not working, we've got no chancing of climbing the table if we keep conceding soft goals which has been a terrible habit for the last 2 months. I keep saying it but Lindelof & Maguire isn't a partnership I like, lack of real pace is an issue especially when chasing games.

Rashford injury is a huge blow, I think its more likely the middle of April before we see him again. The lack of strength in depth is going to really hurt United but most sensible reds knew this was a problem at the beginning of the season. Looks like missing out on Haaland was a huge blow, no idea which way they turn now. Woodward is a disgrace, this is his 7th year in the job and his tenure has been a disaster.
Exactly. This situation was entirely predictable, almost inevitable at start of season. Solskjaer butchered the squad and failed to get in proper replacements. But he gets a free pass from so many fans and pundits. People on here were saying replacing experienced, quality players with fresh air I think was the line, was good business. I think some of his chickens are coming home to roost a bit.
 Utd need to be careful with their next move. See Neville is calling for gap fillers to be signed immediately to alleviate the "crisis". Before it was culling, resetting and not rushing into signings. And he accuses the board of flip flopping.
 The Norwegian does need backing by the board though but they have to be strategic with whatever they sign and not reactionary. At this stage the damage is already done. Rashford injury is a setback but realistically he has been a bit of a surprise bonus this season and bigger holes lie elsewhere.
 I suppose it's hard to say at this stage what they should do. The lure of top 4 is still there so do they sign with that in mind and worry about possible fallout next season? Or do they sign with a long term replacement strategy (Pogba,Martial?) in mind ignoring immediate positional problems and be prepared to treat the rest of the season as a free hit, risking writing it off, but having guys in the squad ready to hit the ground running in September.
 I'm sure they're wet under the collar over it. With every passing transfer window they're becoming less of a lure for the top talented footballers. So new contracts will come with a bit more of a premium. Even domestically, they cannot raid the top teams in the league for talent anymore like they used to. There's bigger attractions for young ambitious footballers elsewhere. So they'll need a bit of luck and a big cheque book to sort themselves out over the next season or two. But TBH, I'd have zero confidence in the man at the wheel.

Without knowing all the facts its difficult to point the finger but if Ole didn't and try and bring anyone in last summer and after agreeing to let Lukaku & Sanchez leave then he's made a huge mistake, we just don't know what pressure he was under from Woodward either.

United don't have a bottomless pit of money and do have to be careful hence why I'd rather they brought in a couple of players on loan and wait fore the summer to bring in their primary targets. I thought they needed 2 players prior to Rashfords injury so it should be 2 in at a bare minimum. I'd like to think they've learned from the last 6 years in the transfer market, buying bad is on thing but United have easily performed the worst of the big clubs in terms of selling players and that is down to Woodward because too many players have come in and been put on huge money. Countless players were let go too cheap, mainly because they were on massive wages.  Nani, Chicarito, Evans, Rafael, Depay, Blind & Fellaini to name a few. Then there's Herrera who was let run down his contract because they waited until the last year of it to negotiate with him, nearly forgot about the idiotic contract Sanchez is on. Woodward is a very lucky man to still be in the job.

Hound

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48024 on: January 20, 2020, 03:57:42 PM »
Ole mentioned twice in the after-match interview that loan deals could be an option. So I'd say there's at least one close to happening.
No idea who that might be but there's speculation around Cavani.

NAG1

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48025 on: January 20, 2020, 04:02:22 PM »
Ole mentioned twice in the after-match interview that loan deals could be an option. So I'd say there's at least one close to happening.
No idea who that might be but there's speculation around Cavani.

Again if it is only a loan deal that would be fine, but if its a buy option it goes against the policy of investing in young hungry players.
Which again would lead people to question the overall recruitment strategy if there is one.

trailer

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48026 on: January 20, 2020, 04:16:43 PM »
Yesterdays result was to be expected, United played better than I anticipated. I don't know how long Ole is going to persist with zonal marking from set pieces but its about time he realised its not working, we've got no chancing of climbing the table if we keep conceding soft goals which has been a terrible habit for the last 2 months. I keep saying it but Lindelof & Maguire isn't a partnership I like, lack of real pace is an issue especially when chasing games.

Rashford injury is a huge blow, I think its more likely the middle of April before we see him again. The lack of strength in depth is going to really hurt United but most sensible reds knew this was a problem at the beginning of the season. Looks like missing out on Haaland was a huge blow, no idea which way they turn now. Woodward is a disgrace, this is his 7th year in the job and his tenure has been a disaster.
Exactly. This situation was entirely predictable, almost inevitable at start of season. Solskjaer butchered the squad and failed to get in proper replacements. But he gets a free pass from so many fans and pundits. People on here were saying replacing experienced, quality players with fresh air I think was the line, was good business. I think some of his chickens are coming home to roost a bit.
 Utd need to be careful with their next move. See Neville is calling for gap fillers to be signed immediately to alleviate the "crisis". Before it was culling, resetting and not rushing into signings. And he accuses the board of flip flopping.
 The Norwegian does need backing by the board though but they have to be strategic with whatever they sign and not reactionary. At this stage the damage is already done. Rashford injury is a setback but realistically he has been a bit of a surprise bonus this season and bigger holes lie elsewhere.
 I suppose it's hard to say at this stage what they should do. The lure of top 4 is still there so do they sign with that in mind and worry about possible fallout next season? Or do they sign with a long term replacement strategy (Pogba,Martial?) in mind ignoring immediate positional problems and be prepared to treat the rest of the season as a free hit, risking writing it off, but having guys in the squad ready to hit the ground running in September.
 I'm sure they're wet under the collar over it. With every passing transfer window they're becoming less of a lure for the top talented footballers. So new contracts will come with a bit more of a premium. Even domestically, they cannot raid the top teams in the league for talent anymore like they used to. There's bigger attractions for young ambitious footballers elsewhere. So they'll need a bit of luck and a big cheque book to sort themselves out over the next season or two. But TBH, I'd have zero confidence in the man at the wheel.

Without knowing all the facts its difficult to point the finger but if Ole didn't and try and bring anyone in last summer and after agreeing to let Lukaku & Sanchez leave then he's made a huge mistake, we just don't know what pressure he was under from Woodward either.

United don't have a bottomless pit of money and do have to be careful hence why I'd rather they brought in a couple of players on loan and wait fore the summer to bring in their primary targets. I thought they needed 2 players prior to Rashfords injury so it should be 2 in at a bare minimum. I'd like to think they've learned from the last 6 years in the transfer market, buying bad is on thing but United have easily performed the worst of the big clubs in terms of selling players and that is down to Woodward because too many players have come in and been put on huge money. Countless players were let go too cheap, mainly because they were on massive wages.  Nani, Chicarito, Evans, Rafael, Depay, Blind & Fellaini to name a few. Then there's Herrera who was let run down his contract because they waited until the last year of it to negotiate with him, nearly forgot about the idiotic contract Sanchez is on. Woodward is a very lucky man to still be in the job.

This is it. Whatever about buying poorly, Utd have sold poorly as well. Evans, Rafael and Nani shouldn't have been let go.

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48027 on: January 20, 2020, 06:56:07 PM »
Yesterdays result was to be expected, United played better than I anticipated. I don't know how long Ole is going to persist with zonal marking from set pieces but its about time he realised its not working, we've got no chancing of climbing the table if we keep conceding soft goals which has been a terrible habit for the last 2 months. I keep saying it but Lindelof & Maguire isn't a partnership I like, lack of real pace is an issue especially when chasing games.

Rashford injury is a huge blow, I think its more likely the middle of April before we see him again. The lack of strength in depth is going to really hurt United but most sensible reds knew this was a problem at the beginning of the season. Looks like missing out on Haaland was a huge blow, no idea which way they turn now. Woodward is a disgrace, this is his 7th year in the job and his tenure has been a disaster.
Exactly. This situation was entirely predictable, almost inevitable at start of season. Solskjaer butchered the squad and failed to get in proper replacements. But he gets a free pass from so many fans and pundits. People on here were saying replacing experienced, quality players with fresh air I think was the line, was good business. I think some of his chickens are coming home to roost a bit.
 Utd need to be careful with their next move. See Neville is calling for gap fillers to be signed immediately to alleviate the "crisis". Before it was culling, resetting and not rushing into signings. And he accuses the board of flip flopping.
 The Norwegian does need backing by the board though but they have to be strategic with whatever they sign and not reactionary. At this stage the damage is already done. Rashford injury is a setback but realistically he has been a bit of a surprise bonus this season and bigger holes lie elsewhere.
 I suppose it's hard to say at this stage what they should do. The lure of top 4 is still there so do they sign with that in mind and worry about possible fallout next season? Or do they sign with a long term replacement strategy (Pogba,Martial?) in mind ignoring immediate positional problems and be prepared to treat the rest of the season as a free hit, risking writing it off, but having guys in the squad ready to hit the ground running in September.
 I'm sure they're wet under the collar over it. With every passing transfer window they're becoming less of a lure for the top talented footballers. So new contracts will come with a bit more of a premium. Even domestically, they cannot raid the top teams in the league for talent anymore like they used to. There's bigger attractions for young ambitious footballers elsewhere. So they'll need a bit of luck and a big cheque book to sort themselves out over the next season or two. But TBH, I'd have zero confidence in the man at the wheel.

Without knowing all the facts its difficult to point the finger but if Ole didn't and try and bring anyone in last summer and after agreeing to let Lukaku & Sanchez leave then he's made a huge mistake, we just don't know what pressure he was under from Woodward either.

United don't have a bottomless pit of money and do have to be careful hence why I'd rather they brought in a couple of players on loan and wait fore the summer to bring in their primary targets. I thought they needed 2 players prior to Rashfords injury so it should be 2 in at a bare minimum. I'd like to think they've learned from the last 6 years in the transfer market, buying bad is on thing but United have easily performed the worst of the big clubs in terms of selling players and that is down to Woodward because too many players have come in and been put on huge money. Countless players were let go too cheap, mainly because they were on massive wages.  Nani, Chicarito, Evans, Rafael, Depay, Blind & Fellaini to name a few. Then there's Herrera who was let run down his contract because they waited until the last year of it to negotiate with him, nearly forgot about the idiotic contract Sanchez is on. Woodward is a very lucky man to still be in the job.

This is it. Whatever about buying poorly, Utd have sold poorly as well. Evans, Rafael and Nani shouldn't have been let go.
I'd imagine that Sanchez contract done untold damage elsewhere. It was always going to be a massive elephant in the room for any new signings or re-negotiated deals after that, pulling every final figure sum up towards it. Probably unsettled some of the high paid stars there at the time too and made their wages look like a pittance.
 Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Solskjaer and he's firefighting as best he can but I just don't think he has it. Comes out with a lot of rubbish and harks on too much about the old days. I think he threw some of his players under the bus a bit too quickly as well. End of the day he's the manager and it's his job to insist to the board what is needed player wise. Running them out the door without cover was stupid.
 We'll see how they fare for the rest of the season. City and Liverpool are so good at the moment there's no point looking at the gap to the top. Their points tally is unnaturally high. But on the other hand one thing would worry me if I were a Utd supporter. They are lucky still to be in the hunt for 4th. A lot of teams are in transition at the moment and are having a bad season. This situation will rectify itself soon I'd say but for the moment it's masking a little bit just how bad Utd actually are. At the rate they're going they are on course for about 56 points end of season. This is very poor form, shouldn't even be good enough for top 6. They need to improve rapidly or could end up looking up at a lot of teams next season.
 

Geoff Tipps

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48028 on: January 21, 2020, 12:09:29 PM »
"We lost to Liverpool, a team you all say are fantastic, and we've been in the game until the last kick of the ball. For me, that's strides forward. There were signs there that we're on the right track."

You all say are fantastic - they're 30 points ahead of you! What a moron!

Ed Ricketts

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #48029 on: January 21, 2020, 01:24:57 PM »
Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Solskjaer and he's firefighting as best he can but I just don't think he has it. Comes out with a lot of rubbish and harks on too much about the old days. I think he threw some of his players under the bus a bit too quickly as well. End of the day he's the manager and it's his job to insist to the board what is needed player wise. Running them out the door without cover was stupid.

This is the main issue with Solskjaer. He doesn't have the clout to knock on Woodward's door and demand the players he needs. He's indebted to the guys that gave him a job the prestige of which he wouldn't have got anywhere else.

It's a bonkers situation. Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea offering up a CL spot on a plate, yet United show no urgency to go and grab it. 10 days left in the window and nothing seems imminent. Go and get a couple of players and have a proper go at fourth place. Surely the continued rebuilding would be easier from the summer onwards with CL football to offer prospective recruits. But then you remember this quote and everything makes sense:

"Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."

c***ts.