Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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NAG1

Lads, I think some of you are buying into this media hype crap around the team and club.
Most fans were calling out for Sanchez and Lukaku to be out of the club in the summer, they also didnt want them spending another 80/90m on a stop gap when in all reality there is an England striker there backed up by Martial both of whom (on paper) should be good enough to get enough goals to keep the team competitive.

It has been stated on here already, his three signings have all settled and played well thus far, so there is no fault there.

GN has said that there has been no direction since AFS left (if even then) three managers with differing styles requiring different players. So now he has been left with a squad of muddled players with no clear identity. He has started a clear out and a reset and there are going to be results like Sunday all season on and off but short term pain for long term gain.

Look-Up!

Quote from: TabClear on October 08, 2019, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 08, 2019, 02:52:02 PM
Quote from: TabClear on October 08, 2019, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 08, 2019, 11:34:07 AM
I think OGS gets a very easy ride from his mates in Sky. Of course you cannot chop change managers willy nilly but there's a very real possibility that Moyes as just one example, is a far superior manager to him. I thought towards end of last season when some of his players were getting flak from his mates in Sky, he said absolutely nothing to defend them and was far too happy to have his belly rubbed by his old team mates in the media.
Maybe you reap what you sow. When the new manager bounce is gone, when the feel good factor of a change is long stripped away, there has to be something else of substance left. There is nothing in his CV to justify his position. He seems weak to pull up certain pundits when they criticize his players. It is those players who will keep him in the job long term, not his old buddies. I couldn't see Fergie be so quick to play the role of little brother to them. Couldn't see him allow the board start the season without a striker. People talking about giving him hundreds of millions to spend and then see what happens. Personally I wouldn't trust him with the kids lunch money.

to be fair to Ole his three signing in the summer have been three of United's best players so far. Wan Bissake, James and Maguire. The issue with the team at the minute is definitely not driven by those three. The issues are higher up the pitch and he did not address them but you have to question who was available? Klopp was questioned early doors about not buying a new keeper/Cb etc and while it definitely hurt Liverpool short term the benefits of him holding out for  VVD and Allison rather than going for a second choice target has paid dividends in the last couple of seasons.

Off potential summer targets I think the likes of Couthinho and Fernades (sp) would have been good additions but I am struggling to think of a decent striker they could realistically have signed without getting completely screwed on price. Joao Felix at €126m? Dybala? Maxi Gomez?

When they went to Newcastle for Longstaff they were quoted £50m for a 19/20 year old midfielder who had started 13 games! While they might look back in a couple of years and take the view that he or Jaoa felix would have been good purchases (like Rooney) but equally they could have been major flops.

If they hadn't targets lined up then they shouldn't have let players go. Sanchez is the only exception I'd have to that. I think maybe his weakness for flattery from old mates could have burned bridges with a few of the players when things were going a little pear shaped end of last season. His loyalty should be to his players, no one else and he came across a bit pathetic in that regard for my money. Neville and Keane might make some valid points that we can agree with but OGS does not have that luxury, not in public anyway. So I'd question his judgement and yes I'd be wary giving him the lunch money. He's a football man and I'm sure he has an eye for players but that doesn't mean he can manage a big club.
There's a few cliches doing the rounds at the moment- can't keep changing managers, too big to go down. If a manager is not up to the task you most certainly change him. But Utd are most certainly too big to go down and it will not happen. That's where the changing the manager bit comes into it.

I'm certainly not saying Ole is a great manager, I was making the point that his purchases have actually been pretty good.

All this relegation zone crap is just hyberbole. United will finish in the top six, they could push for top 4 depending on how the other teams perform. its only 8 games in FFS.  Whether Ole is the man who gets them there or not could be determined by their next game. A win against Liverpool will buy him a fair bit of time and goodwill, equally an abject defeat at OT could create a fan furore and a knee jerk reaction.
I understand that but he has to take responsibility for the state of the squad and it is worse than the squad he inherited. I just don't see much loyalty or backbone in the man. Or maybe he's just too naive.
Look at it this way. The only reason he has the job at the moment, one of the biggest jobs in football and one he hardly deserves, is because of the players' efforts when he came in. They went on a great run and their form was title winning, just as good as City's or Liverpool's. What does he do when he gets the job? Turns around and basically says, -Now I've had time to access, you know what these players are pretty shit really and not fit to wear the Utd shirt. Obviously I can't get rid of them all straight away but some will be packing their bags over the summer and over the next couple of seasons a lot more will be gone.
It might be ok for Keane to come out with that. It might even be ok for OGS to think it but to come out and say it!!! Keane talks about players throwing Jose under the bus. If I were a Utd player I'm not sure I'd be breaking too much of a sweat for him. Don't be expecting a huge turnaround in form. 

Farrandeelin

Imagine if Utd did actually beat Liverpool. Probably wouldn't win again till Christmas if it happened.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

rodney trotter

The Daniel James signing was more to do with Giggs recommendation. He worked with him at Wales and had been keeping an eye on his progress in the championship with Swansea.

Maguire was an obvious move. He had experience of the Premier League and was a England player. City were in for him too, but United offered more.  Wan Bissaka is probaly of the 3 his main signing.

J70

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Imagine if Utd did actually beat Liverpool. Probably wouldn't win again till Christmas if it happened.

There is a good possibility United will get a result.

Liverpool did many times when the roles were reversed.

Plus, aren't all the missing first teamers due back?

United will sit in and try to play on the break.

Blowitupref

Quote from: TabClear on October 08, 2019, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 08, 2019, 02:52:02 PM
Quote from: TabClear on October 08, 2019, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 08, 2019, 11:34:07 AM
I think OGS gets a very easy ride from his mates in Sky. Of course you cannot chop change managers willy nilly but there's a very real possibility that Moyes as just one example, is a far superior manager to him. I thought towards end of last season when some of his players were getting flak from his mates in Sky, he said absolutely nothing to defend them and was far too happy to have his belly rubbed by his old team mates in the media.
Maybe you reap what you sow. When the new manager bounce is gone, when the feel good factor of a change is long stripped away, there has to be something else of substance left. There is nothing in his CV to justify his position. He seems weak to pull up certain pundits when they criticize his players. It is those players who will keep him in the job long term, not his old buddies. I couldn't see Fergie be so quick to play the role of little brother to them. Couldn't see him allow the board start the season without a striker. People talking about giving him hundreds of millions to spend and then see what happens. Personally I wouldn't trust him with the kids lunch money.

to be fair to Ole his three signing in the summer have been three of United's best players so far. Wan Bissake, James and Maguire. The issue with the team at the minute is definitely not driven by those three. The issues are higher up the pitch and he did not address them but you have to question who was available? Klopp was questioned early doors about not buying a new keeper/Cb etc and while it definitely hurt Liverpool short term the benefits of him holding out for  VVD and Allison rather than going for a second choice target has paid dividends in the last couple of seasons.

Off potential summer targets I think the likes of Couthinho and Fernades (sp) would have been good additions but I am struggling to think of a decent striker they could realistically have signed without getting completely screwed on price. Joao Felix at €126m? Dybala? Maxi Gomez?

When they went to Newcastle for Longstaff they were quoted £50m for a 19/20 year old midfielder who had started 13 games! While they might look back in a couple of years and take the view that he or Jaoa felix would have been good purchases (like Rooney) but equally they could have been major flops.

If they hadn't targets lined up then they shouldn't have let players go. Sanchez is the only exception I'd have to that. I think maybe his weakness for flattery from old mates could have burned bridges with a few of the players when things were going a little pear shaped end of last season. His loyalty should be to his players, no one else and he came across a bit pathetic in that regard for my money. Neville and Keane might make some valid points that we can agree with but OGS does not have that luxury, not in public anyway. So I'd question his judgement and yes I'd be wary giving him the lunch money. He's a football man and I'm sure he has an eye for players but that doesn't mean he can manage a big club.
There's a few cliches doing the rounds at the moment- can't keep changing managers, too big to go down. If a manager is not up to the task you most certainly change him. But Utd are most certainly too big to go down and it will not happen. That's where the changing the manager bit comes into it.

I'm certainly not saying Ole is a great manager, I was making the point that his purchases have actually been pretty good.

All this relegation zone crap is just hyberbole. United will finish in the top six, they could push for top 4 depending on how the other teams perform. its only 8 games in FFS.  Whether Ole is the man who gets them there or not could be determined by their next game. A win against Liverpool will buy him a fair bit of time and goodwill, equally an abject defeat at OT could create a fan furore and a knee jerk reaction.

Not hyperbole when you look at Man Uniteds last 17 league games. It's relegation form with a rudderless panel of players lacking leadership on and off the field to get them out of this tough spell. What doesn't help matters is the few decent players they have are injury prone.

More chance of Dublin senior footballers losing a Leinster championship match next summer than this current United side getting a win v Liverpool.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Jeepers Creepers

The only thing Red for that fixture will be Klopps redner if Liverpool don't beat Utd.

Hound

I see Man U's Harvey Neville is called up to the Ireland U19 squad.
Son of Phil Neville!
Apparently the Irish connection is Phil's wife

BennyCake

Quote from: Hound on October 08, 2019, 08:30:31 PM
I see Man U's Harvey Neville is called up to the Ireland U19 squad.
Son of Phil Neville!
Apparently the Irish connection is Phil's wife

Did she go to Bundoran on her holidays or what?

Tony Baloney

Quote from: BennyCake on October 08, 2019, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 08, 2019, 08:30:31 PM
I see Man U's Harvey Neville is called up to the Ireland U19 squad.
Son of Phil Neville!
Apparently the Irish connection is Phil's wife

Did she go to Bundoran on her holidays or what?
They have an Irish Setter.

quit yo jibbajabba

Just need to watch Giggs isnae sniffin.

The footballer. Not the wife

Look-Up!

There is a lot of hyperbole around Utd at the moment and maybe it's a lot of Skolskar's own making. Maybe Messers Keane and Neville are the root of a lot of it too. There are problems at the club and with the squad but some of it is exaggerated. There is real quality in there and a proper manager should be able to get a tune out of them but I think he has lost it TBH. Signing Sanchez was a massive error and was holding the club back going forward but a lot of the rest could have been worked around and tweaked. They played well for him when he came in first and regardless of what went on before, they deserved a bit of loyalty from him and a chance to prove themselves over time. That should have been his starting point in building a title winning team over 2/3 seasons.
Instead of coming out like a man and telling his buddies in the media where to go he agreed with them that a complete purge was needed at the club. He's now dug a big hole for himself and letting Lukaku go without a replacement was stupid. Getting a replacement for him has now become more difficult because time is no longer negotiable. They need one now and agents and other clubs will rinse them.
Neville and Keane are paid money to talk shite for half an hour when the football is on TV. But they are the last people to take advice from in how to run a football club. They are not the ones who will put flesh and bone on the line to raise Utd's fortunes. It's the players currently there and letting it be known that he wants to see half them out the door is hardly great man management or motivation. Players are not stupid and are probably well aware that despite all the smiles and niceties when he first came in he was essentially a hired butcher and these were always his intentions.
I don't know how he can recover from here and he has left a more difficult task for the new man. January should be interesting to say the least.

Ed Ricketts

Quote from: TabClear on October 08, 2019, 03:52:05 PM
I'm certainly not saying Ole is a great manager, I was making the point that his purchases have actually been pretty good.

All this relegation zone crap is just hyberbole. United will finish in the top six, they could push for top 4 depending on how the other teams perform. its only 8 games in FFS. Whether Ole is the man who gets them there or not could be determined by their next game. A win against Liverpool will buy him a fair bit of time and goodwill, equally an abject defeat at OT could create a fan furore and a knee jerk reaction.

17 games actually. 17 points in 17 league games since March, which will go to 17 in 18 games after Liverpool destroy them.

And there were two awful European performances in that time as well.

And a very poor FA Cup exit to Wolves.

Not to mention getting held to a draw at home to third tier team in the League Cup.

Factually, that is a half season of relegation form. No hyperbole, nothing knee-jerk - just facts. Will things pick up? I'd love for someone to make a credible case for that.
Doc would listen to any kind of nonsense and change it for you to a kind of wisdom.

Boycey

This thread is hilarious, who the fcuk are these people and what are they talking about  ;D, I've seldom come across such a hptch potch set of views.

Apologies to long term contributors to this thread both friend and foe...

johnnycool

Man Utd won't get relegated but they could really end up out of the top 6 and Europe again and in the past that was enough to sack Moyes, LVG and Maureen so why would OGS be any different?

OGS was a temporary fix who joined with a run of favourable fixtures to come, the win over PSG in Paris was fortunate but give credit where it's due.

Thereafter the ex united players in the media and supporters jumped on the OGS bus without any form of actual due diligence into what was taking place.

Where Utd are seriously going wrong is in the boardroom.

When everyone was crying for OGS to become manager there needed to be cool, critical thinking at executive level with a good understanding of the product (football) rather than revenue streams and who can sell the most jerseys and raise the profile short term.

James will prove to be a good purchase providing further good purchases are made to support the team.
The wee right back may also be a decent buy but he was bought on a whim and the jury may still be out on him.
Harry Maguire was bough purely because he was an England centre back, but he's functional enough to be the leader of the defensive unit really crying out for someone to take hold if it. Maguire may well be come that player but he doesn't show that for England and Leicester didn't exactly fall apart when he left.

Much for Ole to do but the boardroom are to blame for most of it.