Man Utd Thread:

Milltown Row2 · March 15, 2018, 10:56:09 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 15, 2018, 10:42:39 AM
Why do you keep going on about better GD MR2? Isn't that sort of the point they are making? Nobody is saying Mourinho can't win matches (I don't think). It's the style of it they are questioning. 10 1-0s gives you a better goal difference than 8 4-3s and 2 4-4s. So it comes down to an existential argument. Is it better to win ugly (most of the time) and feel betrayed when ugly doesn't work, or win pretty (some of the time) and feel frustrated you are not more 'ruthless' or 'solid' when pretty doesn't work? I'm not sure there's a right answer either way.

That's why I asked the question the other day?

and I answered it, you have to do both to succeed, Utd had plenty of 1-0's back in the day.. Cantona won a few games 1-0 to drag Utd over the line one season I remember.. Arsenal fans used chant about their 1-0's when they were winning the leagues...

do you feel betrayed that, lets say Liverpool.. try and win with attacking football but end up dropping points from a winning position in a few games? or should they just close up shop after going 2 up or even one up and take the 3 points.. ?

AZOffaly · March 15, 2018, 10:58:41 AM

You answered it, but you keep going on about Goal Difference as if that's something to behold. I have no problem with you liking what Mourinho is doing at united, no problem at all.

My preference is he'd be a little less cautious. My preference with Klopp is he'd be a little more cautious!

Milltown Row2 · March 15, 2018, 11:05:11 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 15, 2018, 10:52:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 15, 2018, 10:46:50 AM
What's the obsession with GD MR2 ?!

I mentioned being 5 points ahead and 2nd in the league also.. GD difference is worth a point at the end of the season, can be the difference between first second or 4th and 5th in the leauge.. you dont find GD important?

It's a tiebreaker, but it's not as important as you make it out to be. I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make when you raise it. Unless you are answering my question by saying you prefer to win ugly. Which is absolutely fine by the way. Just win baby, as Al Davis said.

Utd lost a few PL on the last day due to GD...important enough.. but yes a tiebreaker all the same...

would you take an ulgly Liverpool to win a league title in so many years, and a first EPL or prefer to carry on as is? Utd winning the titles like they did was great but I'd say that a Utd supporter would just want to get one again to stop the rot..

Was at my dads on Sunday and he's a big fan but getting very annoyed with the style of play and the lack of league chances, very much at odds having watched the Busby babes to the the Best Law Charlton days through the shit times and then the Fergie years, he feels its going to fall into a long wait again for the title..

J70 · March 15, 2018, 11:09:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 15, 2018, 10:46:50 AM
What's the obsession with GD MR2 ?!

I mentioned being 5 points ahead and 2nd in the league also.. GD difference is worth a point at the end of the season, can be the difference between first second or 4th and 5th in the leauge.. you dont find GD important?

The GD differential between United, Liverpool and Spurs is one. At this stage, with eight games left, that's meaningless. After 15 games (half the current total), United had a GD of 26, Liverpool 14 and Spurs 10. Which team(s) are more likely to pad their goal difference for the remainder of the season? Plus, United's points advantage is probably sufficient to guarantee them second at this stage anyway, unless Liverpool win all their remaining games (unlikely with Chelsea and Everton away) and United drops points to City and, maybe (big maybe) Arsenal.

AZOffaly · March 15, 2018, 11:11:01 AM

I don't think you can win the league with what Mourinho is doing these days. 1-0 to the Arsenal is a long time ago. Yes you need to be able to win when you play badly (a lesson Liverpool need to learn), but your approach has to be more adventurous because if you are that cautious, you are going to draw a lot, or lose games by making one mistake.

Plus United have some bloody good players!

Maroon Manc · March 15, 2018, 11:24:06 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 15, 2018, 11:11:01 AM
I don't think you can win the league with what Mourinho is doing these days. 1-0 to the Arsenal is a long time ago. Yes you need to be able to win when you play badly (a lesson Liverpool need to learn), but your approach has to be more adventurous because if you are that cautious, you are going to draw a lot, or lose games by making one mistake.

Plus United have some bloody good players!

It doesn't matter what way you play when City have accumulated points like they have this season.

I do think you can win a league with Mourinho's approach but it depends on whether the players are good enough and obviously how good the team are at the top, in this case City are brilliant. Before the season I thought United were capable of winning the league by accumulating about 86/87 points. We won't get that many but we won't be a million miles off. I do think with a few more additions results and performances will improve but perhaps not to the extent to keep everyone happy.

How would Pep have done at United? I don't think there's a chance we'd be where City are, he inherited 5 of his front 6 in Fernandinho, Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling & Aguero. Look at the state of that United side that Mourinho inherited, it was appalling. Then there's the issue of money, Pep must have spent nearly £200m more than United in the same period. We would certainly be playing more entertaining football but I don't think we'd be any further along in the league or Europe and its a debate whether we'd have won the trohpies we won last season.

Asal Mor · March 15, 2018, 11:32:51 AM

Pep makes players better though. Attacking players seem to suffer under Mourinho's style. It doesn't matter what he inherited, he has Pogba, Rashford, Mata, Lukaku and Sanchez yet they're still not trusted to pass the ball through midfield and put a coherent attacking move together. Mourinho's tactics would be fitting for a team with Whelan and Andrews in midfield.

AZOffaly · March 15, 2018, 11:36:01 AM

Mourinho for Ireland!

seafoid · March 15, 2018, 11:45:57 AM

Man City started the current project in 2008. Everything was planned. Man Utd flogged the Fergie team to death and then dI'd everything short term. It is no wonder Mourinho isn't getting anywhere with them.

Milltown Row2 · March 15, 2018, 11:55:26 AM

Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 11:45:57 AM
Man City started the current project in 2008. Everything was planned. Man Utd flogged the Fergie team to death and then dI'd everything short term. It is no wonder Mourinho isn't getting anywhere with them.

By bringing in a billionaire .. yeah, tough planning

Minder · March 15, 2018, 11:56:35 AM

Pep also inherited a team that finished level on points with United & finished 5 pts behind Arsenal. Regards Mourinho "rebuilding", he had arguable the best GK in the world, he bought two central defenders, two centre midfielders, Sanchez & Lukaku off the top of my head. When will the rebuild be complete ?

AZOffaly · March 15, 2018, 11:58:47 AM

I'm not sure I'm buying the poor mouth as a reason for Mourinho's style. He has players like Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Mata, Sanchez but he doesn't want to use them in the best way. He has arguably the best keeper in the world (a major reason for MR2 beloved Goal Difference advantage

), and he has a player like Matic who is a very solid DM. There is the guts of a team there that can play a bit more optimistically. Anyway, I'll step out now. None of my business. I'm a Liverpool Fan

Milltown Row2 · March 15, 2018, 12:00:16 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 15, 2018, 11:58:47 AM
I'm not sure I'm buying the poor mouth as a reason for Mourinho's style. He has players like Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Mata, Sanchez but he doesn't want to use them in the best way. He has arguably the best keeper in the world (a major reason for MR2 beloved Goal Difference advantage ), and he has a player like Matic who is a very solid DM. There is the guts of a team there that can play a bit more optimistically. Anyway, I'll step out now. None of my business. I'm a Liverpool Fan

I dont buy it either, Jose doesnt know his best team or trust them or himself enough to go at teams in the top six

brokencrossbar1 · March 15, 2018, 12:11:54 PM

It's a pointless debate anyway lads .... as you said yourself MR2 .... 2 bald men fighting over a comb!!!

magpie seanie · March 15, 2018, 12:37:15 PM

Guardiola inherited a City team that finished ahead of LVG's United on goal difference. It's seriously overegging things to suggest Guardiola inherited a significantly better side. Who spent the most since then doesn't particulalrly matter as both clubs pretty much have as much cash to spend as they want. If United needed to spend more and didn't that's Mourinho's fault.

Guardiola increased the gap to 9 points last season. Now it's 16. I'm not Guardiola's biggest fan but by any measure (bar a Europa league which Guardiola couldn't win as he wasn't in it) he has clearly outperformed Mourinho. They're actually live contenders for the CL in some peoples eyes which United are miles off.

As for the Spanish media coverage - mostly spot on. I like the word "troglodyte"....very apt.