Man Utd Thread:

[Geoff Tipps]

Chelsea are 17 points better off than they were last season.
Man Utd are 7 points worse off.

[under the bar]

Incredibly frustrating game yet again and not just because they didn't find the second goal.  United  are so hard to watch because as they attack they are just as vulnerable to conceding from a counter as they are likely to score a goal.  They could have easily lost 2-1 as won by the same margin today.   To drop 8 points that were all within reach in 4 home games running is simply not acceptable. 

Being on top in games without scoring goals is not good enough, has never been good enough and never will be good enough.  Shaping the team around a 35 year old striker is not realistic. The distraction of a manager who irks referees consistently and gets himself sent to the stands just as games are in the melting pot and not being there when needed to see the team through isn't synonymous with a winning ethos or mentality. 

To compete for a top 4 finish needs a lot than just a change of luck!

[Maroon Manc]

At least United are enjoyable too watch for the first time since Fergie left, the first 45 minutes we were superb and exciting to watch but we are continuing to miss easy chances and its costings us points. We're relying too heavily on Zlatan for goals, Martial, Lingard & Rooney aren't scoring goals, they've scored 2 goals in 25 league games between them, they should have chipped in with at least 7 or 8. Rashford has stopped scoring too after starting the season so well.

Top 4 is probably beyond us barring a spectacular collapse from one of the top 4 or we go on a fantastic run until the end of the season and that certainly won't happen whilst we're playing Thursday night football.

Darmian isn't up to it and and Young should have been brought on for him whilst the Fellaini substitution was a disaster and it led to West Ham looking far more comfortable.

[yellowcard]

Building a team around a 36 year old is Mourinhos biggest mistake and there is a cult around Ibrahimovic that elevates him to a status that his performances do not merit. Far too slow and immobile and he is holding the team back. Granted there are plenty of other problems but 8 points out of the last 21 is poor form and the manager will probably now get a 3 game ban as well. I'm not sure that the spine of a decent team even exists, far too many overpaid prima donnas on big contracts not bothered.

[TabClear]

Building a team around a 36 year old is Mourinhos biggest mistake and there is a cult around Ibrahimovic that elevates him to a status that his performances do not merit. Far too slow and immobile and he is holding the team back. Granted there are plenty of other problems but 8 points out of the last 21 is poor form and the manager will probably now get a 3 game ban as well. I'm not sure that the spine of a decent team even exists, far too many overpaid prima donnas on big contracts not bothered.

Too be fair his run of league titles on the spin would beg to differ. I do agree though that he's not the spearhead he used to be who could carry a team.  You can't argue with his contribution, it's the other attacking players that are at fault as mentioned above.  Martial in particular is a pale shadow of the player he was last year.

United have been unlucky in several games but Mourinho focusing on this is not helpful. They are capable of going on a5-6 game winning run though.

[rodney trotter]

United's worst start to a league season since 1990. Not sure how Maroon Manx thinks they are more enjoyable to watch. They spent 160 million in the summer. Still nowhere near the top.

[Maroon Manc]

Too easy to pick on Zlatan, he's scored 7 goals in 12 league games whilst Martial, Rashford, Mata, Rooney & Lingard who've played 42 games between them have scored 8 league goals; This is the reason why we're in trouble. Zlatan has missed chances too and he should be in double figures but along with Mata he's easily been our best attacking player this season.

Martial has been the biggest disappointment, hopefully he can put his personal problems behind him because if the Martial of last season had turned up we'd be a lot closer to top 4.

[magpie seanie]

When something keeps happening there tends to be a reason for it. You can't keep being unlucky....I don't buy that. It's up to the manager to sort it out....not kick bottles on the sideline when a guy gets booked for diving and make an even bigger tit out of himself. He's blaming referees and singling out players publicly - it's not good management.

The position United are in is not acceptable. With the additions of the summer and the relaxing of LVG's very structured report you'd have expected major improvement but those figures - 7 points worse off, worst start since 1990.....they're damning. All the time the manager is acting (and I use that word loosely) the clown and making it easy for referees to go against the team. It's at times like this that a manager earns their wages.....but Jose has never had to do this. He looks lost, completely ill equipped to deal with this situation.

It's a weak enough league and United should be up there fighting for it.

MM - I think if some of the other player you mention had been first choice up front for a good run like Ibrahimovic they might well have more goals. Especially with young players, they need a run of games in their best position to thrive. Some things Ibra does are brilliant but he's the big, experienced guy and needs to be sticking more of these chances.

[AZOffaly]

On the other hand seanie, they're probably pretty close in fairness. Those draws could easily be wins and things would look very different. I haven't seen much of United this season, but are the performances dire, or are they getting better? I remember a few years ago Liverpool were drawing a heap of games, hitting the post about 1,000 times a game, and making MOTM out of opposition goalkeepers. That sound like what's happening with United as well, as opposed to them barely scraping draws.

[Maroon Manc]

When something keeps happening there tends to be a reason for it. You can't keep being unlucky....I don't buy that. It's up to the manager to sort it out....not kick bottles on the sideline when a guy gets booked for diving and make an even bigger tit out of himself. He's blaming referees and singling out players publicly - it's not good management.

The position United are in is not acceptable. With the additions of the summer and the relaxing of LVG's very structured report you'd have expected major improvement but those figures - 7 points worse off, worst start since 1990.....they're damning. All the time the manager is acting (and I use that word loosely) the clown and making it easy for referees to go against the team. It's at times like this that a manager earns their wages.....but Jose has never had to do this. He looks lost, completely ill equipped to deal with this situation.

It's a weak enough league and United should be up there fighting for it.

MM - I think if some of the other player you mention had been first choice up front for a good run like Ibrahimovic they might well have more goals. Especially with young players, they need a run of games in their best position to thrive. Some things Ibra does are brilliant but he's the big, experienced guy and needs to be sticking more of these chances.

Rashford may have got as many goals but thats about it. I've been impressed with Zlatan's all round play, he's a lot more creative then i expected him to be and I think because he lacks pace he's been unfairly criticised. I do think he's not as good a finisher as he was been in previous years, he should be into double figures in the league but i still wouldn't think about dropping him.

I agree we should be challenging for the title but i'm less worried then I was after the Chelsea game, we've played some great football and are creating plenty of chances. Goal scoring is clearly the issue and Rooney, Rashford, Martial & Lingard have simply not contributed near enough. Those 4 players have been good finishers in previous years yet this season they've only 5 league goals between them is simply not good enough.

[stew]

On the other hand seanie, they're probably pretty close in fairness. Those draws could easily be wins and things would look very different. I haven't seen much of United this season, but are the performances dire, or are they getting better? I remember a few years ago Liverpool were drawing a heap of games, hitting the post about 1,000 times a game, and making MOTM out of opposition goalkeepers. That sound like what's happening with United as well, as opposed to them barely scraping draws.

United teams have traditionally found a way to win, this crop cannot, its as simple as that, a two pronged attack is required with Rashford alongside ZI.

The goalscorers are not scoring, simple as that and they have no one driving them on anymore, to me that is the key right there, Rooney is a bit part player and Pogba should be that man but as of yet he is not!

[Maroon Manc]

On the other hand seanie, they're probably pretty close in fairness. Those draws could easily be wins and things would look very different. I haven't seen much of United this season, but are the performances dire, or are they getting better? I remember a few years ago Liverpool were drawing a heap of games, hitting the post about 1,000 times a game, and making MOTM out of opposition goalkeepers. That sound like what's happening with United as well, as opposed to them barely scraping draws.

Certainly getting better, i've really looked forward to games in the last month and we've played some great football which we've not seen in over 3 years. If we weren't creating any chances then i'd be worried but we are and there falling to players who should be doing better who all have pedigree for scoring goals.

Defensively we have issues still and we've conceded goals that could have been prevented. Darmian is not a United player and a partnership of Rojo & Jones lacks height so it no surprise we've conceded 2 goals to headers against West Ham & Arsenal.

Top 4 has gone barring a huge slip up from one of the top 4 which is looking highly unlikely and even then we'd need to go on a great run.

[magpie seanie]

AZ/MM - I'm just frustrated by it all and I cannot stand Mourinho. He's a complete embarrassment.

On the goals thing - Rashford is all too often in wide areas and don't forget - he wasn't getting picked for a while. Martial is quality but is having one of those dips in form that young players suffer....his personal problems most likely contributing. Another issue is the expectation on Pogba to scores loads of goals. As I understand it he was never a prolific scorer. His athleticism is his main attribute and he just needs to be left free to do his thing. I don't think he's too tactically savvy and needs Carrick. Obviously Rooney's attitude up until he got slaughtered in the media recently has been a major problem but he kept getting picked for a long time. The manager has to take some blame too.

[Maroon Manc]

Rashford is still missing chances though, at least he's contributing though and I'm more concerned with Martial. Pogba has been excellent since the Chelsea game, I'm not worried about him as he'll improve tactically under Mourinho and learn to be more disciplined which is evident in the last month. Given the lack of goals I'd imagine Griezemann will be at the top of Mourinho's list this summer.

I've got no issue with Jose's behaviour and very confident he'll turn it around. I wouldn't have played Carrick yesterday if he was fully fit, Herrera & Pogba can do the job in those sort of games. West Ham only looked dangerous once Fellaini came on. i'd criticise Jose yeserday for bringing Fellaini on but was more disappointed with him keeping Darmian on the pitch, he had acres of space to play in as West Ham realised he is no threat at all.

[rodney trotter]

They are creating loads of chances against teams you expect them to dominate at home. Burnley,Stoke and West ham. They still only drew those games. How is that playing better?

Arsenal at home was a defent performance. But a draw there. Chelsea away was terrible. Liverpool away. They drew thanks to de gea,barely attacked