Man Utd Thread:

[Over the Bar]

This is a really hard one to call.   Despite injuries United should have safely navgated that CL group.   LVG and everyone else would have known before a ball was kicked that going to Wolfsburg needing a win in the last game would be unacceptable.   Whatever plans the Glazers have for LVG are likely to be asounded out already.   

Only Chelsea's poor form is saving LVG's ass at this stage.   If Chelsea were top 4, then we'd be fighting for 4th place with everyone else as we certainly are nowhere near a Arsenal's or City's level.  A Liverpol resurgance under Klopp could see LGV out the door at the end of the season.

[magpie seanie]

Arsenal needed a big win last night away to Olympiakos to get through. Granted Bayern are one of the best around but Olympiakos and Kiev are not even as good as PSV and Wolfsburg. Arsenal got what they needed last night because (a) they are not riddled with injuries and (b) Olympiakos are not as good as Wolfsburg. You could argue Arsenal are better than United (not by much is they are) but they were equally sloppy in early rounds of their CL group and were fortunate to be able to rectify it. Good luck to them.

[StGallsGAA]

Arsenal play attractive, attacking but sometimes risky football winning 3 then losing one.   Give me that any day over the 0-0's we've racked up this season.   

[magpie seanie]

Giggs either offers nothing sensible or Van Gaal doesn't listen to anything he says. I do not think Giggs has the charisma for that job. All eyes will be on Gary Neville in Spain. I think  Ferguson is secretly wetting himself at the prospect.

Neville will have to prove his worth in Spain or Giggs gets the job, I would say Fergie would prefer Neville but you never know.

f**k Ferguson. He left the team in shite and picked a completely incompetent replacement. He has done enough damage.

Neither Giggs nor Neville(s) are worth consideration as replacements for LVG when he leaves in 18 months time. They have achieved nothing in management.

Stew - am I right in thinking you believe Giggs would be a bad manager because of his infidelities? Surely as a Christian (I assume you are) you should be promoting forgiveness and being non-judgemental. Judgement is reserved for one entity, no?

Wash your mouth out, if SAF were to return it would all change. Thats just a ridiculous comment on the manager who led us to all the silverware over the last 20 years. im not calling for a return but there was a certain mentality, and beyond all a FEAR. For anyone to slate SAF for retiring is BS, he left with a title winning team!Transition could take this team 5 years. We have been lucky the quality of the league has been so poor or we would already be out of the picture.  We are 3 points from top of the league, form has been poor and quality of football also but if someone was to give you the current table after 15 games at the beginning of the season im sure any fan would have snapped their hand off. Undoubtedly, there will be a huge regret if we do not strngthen in defense & attack come January 31st

It's not a ridiculous comment. Ferguson is probably the greatest manager in history but he is also an egomaniac. He can't stop talking in the media or writing books - he loves the limelight and the adulation. For all his greatness the football played by his teams in the last few years was awful at times and also for a time during the mid-2000's. He treated great club servants unnecessarily harshly when he deemed them past their usefulness. He cost the club approx. 80-100M with his treatment of Pogba and made many terrible transfers.

And undeniably he left the team/squad in bad shape when he left, appointing a guy who was destined to fail. Yes they won the league but it was a poor league then and it's a poor league now, relatively.

If LVG is to be micro analysed and criticised under the microscope, why the reluctance to do the same to others?

I do agree the FEAR factor has gone. I think the time a Sunderland players walked through United's defense (Rio especially) from the halfway line was the moment I copped that. It didn't go overnight and won't come back overnight. United is being rebuilt and currently has few if any leaders. That needs to be addressed for this mentality to return. I think it will be but the team is coming from a low base.

[Walter Cronc]

Arsenal needed a big win last night away to Olympiakos to get through. Granted Bayern are one of the best around but Olympiakos and Kiev are not even as good as PSV and Wolfsburg. Arsenal got what they needed last night because (a) they are not riddled with injuries and (b) Olympiakos are not as good as Wolfsburg. You could argue Arsenal are better than United (not by much is they are) but they were equally sloppy in early rounds of their CL group and were fortunate to be able to rectify it. Good luck to them.

Sanchez, Coquelin, Cazorla, Wilshere & Welbeck. Walcott and Ramsey only back from injury.

[gallsman]

Seanie, there's not much I disagree with there but I absolutely do on the treatment of club servants piece. It's his professional responsibility to move on from players that are past it. You're a fan of American Football - look at Bellichik.

[Maroon Manc]

Fergie made a few mistakes but in fair he didn't have the money to compete for top players from 09-12. World class players left, aged and the money wasn't available to replace them with world class players. We were reluctant to pay big wages for too many players either.

After Ronaldo & Tevez  left our signings for the next 2 summers were Owen, Valencia, Smalling & Hernandez whilst Rio, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs & Evra were the wrong side of 30 and Hargreaves & Fletcher & Hargreaves had injuries and illnesses which meant they were past their best too. Fergie won the title in his last season as he squeezed every last drop from the older players and because of RVP. Barca, Real & Bayern would all replace their big names buy buying big name players, no wonder we were in such a state. Fergie left plenty of good squad players but not one player who you could world class or even remotely near world class. Don't get me wrong there were players who we should have signed and weren't that expensive like Robben who left Real the summer they bought Ronaldo.

[J70]

Ferguson neglected the centre of midfield for years, never adequately replacing Keane and, latterly, Scholes. Hard to maintain standards in European terms when you allow the rot to begin to set in and spread like that.

[gallsman]

If LVG had played someone with pace in there I would agree with you but he played Fellaini who's neither quick or quick up top.
Hernandez wouldn't score goals the way we play and I'd had enough of his limited play outside the area. I agree on Wilson, he'll score a lot of goals for Brighton. He's one of the top 3 youngsters to come through the academy since the class of 92 in terms of ability.

Januzaj should be called back, he'd get more minutes playing for us.

By all accounts Ravel Morrison was the best of them...

[Maroon Manc]

If LVG had played someone with pace in there I would agree with you but he played Fellaini who's neither quick or quick up top.
Hernandez wouldn't score goals the way we play and I'd had enough of his limited play outside the area. I agree on Wilson, he'll score a lot of goals for Brighton. He's one of the top 3 youngsters to come through the academy since the class of 92 in terms of ability.

Januzaj should be called back, he'd get more minutes playing for us.

By all accounts Ravel Morrison was the best of them...

He was but his attitude is appalling, ability wise he could have been the next Gazza but when you've got an attitude like his its not possible to make the most of his talent. He has no regard for anyone in authority and keeps very questionable company. Lazio will be his last big club. The only English clubs who were prepared to take him on when he left West Ham was Newcastle and Blackpool, Ashley wouldn't sanction it though and Blackpool would only offer a pay as you play deal.

[oakleaflad]

If LVG had played someone with pace in there I would agree with you but he played Fellaini who's neither quick or quick up top.
Hernandez wouldn't score goals the way we play and I'd had enough of his limited play outside the area. I agree on Wilson, he'll score a lot of goals for Brighton. He's one of the top 3 youngsters to come through the academy since the class of 92 in terms of ability.

Januzaj should be called back, he'd get more minutes playing for us.

By all accounts Ravel Morrison was the best of them...

He was but his attitude is appalling, ability wise he could have been the next Gazza but when you've got an attitude like his its not possible to make the most of his talent. He has no regard for anyone in authority and keeps very questionable company. Lazio will be his last big club. The only English clubs who were prepared to take him on when he left West Ham was Newcastle and Blackpool, Ashley wouldn't sanction it though and Blackpool would only offer a pay as you play deal.

He was not. Pogba was better than him then too. He had loads of talent though and will never fulfill it. Sad, but it's his own fault.

[Cunny Funt]

Giggs either offers nothing sensible or Van Gaal doesn't listen to anything he says. I do not think Giggs has the charisma for that job. All eyes will be on Gary Neville in Spain. I think  Ferguson is secretly wetting himself at the prospect.

Neville will have to prove his worth in Spain or Giggs gets the job, I would say Fergie would prefer Neville but you never know.

f**k Ferguson. He left the team in shite and picked a completely incompetent replacement. He has done enough damage.

Neither Giggs nor Neville(s) are worth consideration as replacements for LVG when he leaves in 18 months time. They have achieved nothing in management.

Stew - am I right in thinking you believe Giggs would be a bad manager because of his infidelities? Surely as a Christian (I assume you are) you should be promoting forgiveness and being non-judgemental. Judgement is reserved for one entity, no?

Wash your mouth out, if SAF were to return it would all change. Thats just a ridiculous comment on the manager who led us to all the silverware over the last 20 years. im not calling for a return but there was a certain mentality, and beyond all a FEAR. For anyone to slate SAF for retiring is BS, he left with a title winning team!Transition could take this team 5 years. We have been lucky the quality of the league has been so poor or we would already be out of the picture.  We are 3 points from top of the league, form has been poor and quality of football also but if someone was to give you the current table after 15 games at the beginning of the season im sure any fan would have snapped their hand off. Undoubtedly, there will be a huge regret if we do not strngthen in defense & attack come January 31st

It's not a ridiculous comment. Ferguson is probably the greatest manager in history but he is also an egomaniac. He can't stop talking in the media or writing books - he loves the limelight and the adulation. For all his greatness the football played by his teams in the last few years was awful at times and also for a time during the mid-2000's. He treated great club servants unnecessarily harshly when he deemed them past their usefulness. He cost the club approx. 80-100M with his treatment of Pogba and made many terrible transfers.

And undeniably he left the team/squad in bad shape when he left, appointing a guy who was destined to fail. Yes they won the league but it was a poor league then and it's a poor league now, relatively.

If LVG is to be micro analysed and criticised under the microscope, why the reluctance to do the same to others?

I do agree the FEAR factor has gone. I think the time a Sunderland players walked through United's defense (Rio especially) from the halfway line was the moment I copped that. It didn't go overnight and won't come back overnight. United is being rebuilt and currently has few if any leaders. That needs to be addressed for this mentality to return. I think it will be but the team is coming from a low base.

f**k Ferguson was a ridiculous comment. The 13 premier league titles,global brand the club is today,the massive stadium and training complex,ability to spend hundreds of millions on players and the structures in place to keep United either challenging for the title or reaching top 4 probably wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for the job Ferguson did. He turned the club around without him United could just be another so called big club with a tradition such as Newcastle or Everton.

[Maroon Manc]

If LVG had played someone with pace in there I would agree with you but he played Fellaini who's neither quick or quick up top.
Hernandez wouldn't score goals the way we play and I'd had enough of his limited play outside the area. I agree on Wilson, he'll score a lot of goals for Brighton. He's one of the top 3 youngsters to come through the academy since the class of 92 in terms of ability.

Januzaj should be called back, he'd get more minutes playing for us.

By all accounts Ravel Morrison was the best of them...

He was but his attitude is appalling, ability wise he could have been the next Gazza but when you've got an attitude like his its not possible to make the most of his talent. He has no regard for anyone in authority and keeps very questionable company. Lazio will be his last big club. The only English clubs who were prepared to take him on when he left West Ham was Newcastle and Blackpool, Ashley wouldn't sanction it though and Blackpool would only offer a pay as you play deal.

He was not. Pogba was better than him then too. He had loads of talent though and will never fulfill it. Sad, but it's his own fault.

Pogba been better than anyone isn't a slight on them given how good he is but there's certainly more people who believe Morrison was the more talented of the two but it means nothing when you've not got the attitude.  I don't know how much you know about Morrison but he's comfortably the most uncontrollable player United have ever had, he's a loon.

[seafoid]

Fergie made a few mistakes but in fair he didn't have the money to compete for top players from 09-12. World class players left, aged and the money wasn't available to replace them with world class players. We were reluctant to pay big wages for too many players either.

After Ronaldo & Tevez  left our signings for the next 2 summers were Owen, Valencia, Smalling & Hernandez whilst Rio, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs & Evra were the wrong side of 30 and Hargreaves & Fletcher & Hargreaves had injuries and illnesses which meant they were past their best too. Fergie won the title in his last season as he squeezed every last drop from the older players and because of RVP. Barca, Real & Bayern would all replace their big names buy buying big name players, no wonder we were in such a state. Fergie left plenty of good squad players but not one player who you could world class or even remotely near world class. Don't get me wrong there were players who we should have signed and weren't that expensive like Robben who left Real the summer they bought Ronaldo.

The Glazers bought Man Utd as an investment, not to be the top team. There is more money merchandising in Asia.
And buying top players hits the bottom line. It's a business, not a football team.
Look at the shares over 5 years

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MANU

[snoopdog]

Fergie made a few mistakes but in fair he didn't have the money to compete for top players from 09-12. World class players left, aged and the money wasn't available to replace them with world class players. We were reluctant to pay big wages for too many players either.

After Ronaldo & Tevez  left our signings for the next 2 summers were Owen, Valencia, Smalling & Hernandez whilst Rio, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs & Evra were the wrong side of 30 and Hargreaves & Fletcher & Hargreaves had injuries and illnesses which meant they were past their best too. Fergie won the title in his last season as he squeezed every last drop from the older players and because of RVP. Barca, Real & Bayern would all replace their big names buy buying big name players, no wonder we were in such a state. Fergie left plenty of good squad players but not one player who you could world class or even remotely near world class. Don't get me wrong there were players who we should have signed and weren't that expensive like Robben who left Real the summer they bought Ronaldo.

The Glazers bought Man Utd as an investment, not to be the top team. There is more money merchandising in Asia.
And buying top players hits the bottom line. It's a business, not a football team.
Look at the shares over 5 years

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MANU

To be successful business wise they still need to be top in footb aalling terms. Cop on. How successful as a top club are ac milan now they haven't done anything in a number of seasons.