Man Utd Thread:

[rodney trotter]

That was a bad defeat. It was the time for Ole to get his first trophy. Didn't made a sub until Extra time,while Emery had used 5 before him.
Brought on Fred for Greenwood , when Rashford was ineffective.

[BennyCake]

I was actually pleased to see Villarreal celebrate. And at least it puts another nail in the super league coffin, although a lot of people have failed to see the ESL has been dressed up as the new CL.

United are seriously lacking in quality. Winning last night wouldn't  have changed that. Mata/James were probably the only players that could've come on and created something but they got little time to do so. United just didn't get going, bar a few minutes second half, but credit should go to Villarreal.

Cavani cannot carry the can for seasons to come, quality support needed. Pogba and Rashford very poor. Only Shaw, Cavani, AWB and McTominay performed well. As for DeGea, Jesus Christ. His attempt at stopping the goal was like a lad playing goal in his first communion outfit that didn't want to get them dirty. He went for those penalties like he was doped in diazepam, no urgency, no belief, no intimidating/psyching out the player, no making himself big. I've always said Kasper Schmeichel is 10 times the player. He would've won that shootout for United last night. So would Henderson. We'd had to endure 10 years of him, and I just hope this is finally the end for him.

[smort]

I agree it has to be the end for de gea. He needs a move more for himself than anything. His confidence and belief is completely shot, you could see it every time one of the utd penalty scorers went over to try and gee him up. Knew he was going to miss when it came down to the keepers.
To be fair to him, he was world class for 4 or 5 years, and without him utd would have been in real serious difficulties a few years back, he single-handedly kept them in games and in contention for european football. Didn't he win player of the year 3 or 4 years in a row?

[Louther]

Was a very good post on twitter from a GK coach who has analysed DeGea goalkeeper for penalties over the last few seasons.

He identified what is known as a negative step in his dive for penalties - if he diving to his right hand side, his right moves inward towards his left foot, a negative movement, as it then shortens his length of dive. If he guesses right, a well struck penalty near to post will be scored regardless of him guessing right. It would have to be poorly hit for him to save - his perfect example was De Geas penalty itself and the other keeper who also had a negative movement in his footing. Same
For Shaws penalty where he should have saved but was on shortened dive with 1 hand.

This coach said the first few penalties he faced he didn't do the negative step but was diving too early and was easy for takers. Rule for keepers is dive at contact of ball even if committing to one side. Often why takers delay final few steps of run up, like Rashford, to get them to go early as the keeper will try to time their dive with the run up.

After first few he reverted to type and was moving slightly early and on shortened dives. This combination has hindered him when facing penalties over last number of years.

It was well thought out and he showed previous tweets of this he'd done on the same subject with De Gea.

In the defence of the keepers. A lot of penalties where very well struck but interesting to see the breakdown by a GK coach and how technical they can get.

[gallsman]

Henderson has to be back in? Really?

[bigarsedkeeper]

Was a very good post on twitter from a GK coach who has analysed DeGea goalkeeper for penalties over the last few seasons.

He identified what is known as a negative step in his dive for penalties - if he diving to his right hand side, his right moves inward towards his left foot, a negative movement, as it then shortens his length of dive. If he guesses right, a well struck penalty near to post will be scored regardless of him guessing right. It would have to be poorly hit for him to save - his perfect example was De Geas penalty itself and the other keeper who also had a negative movement in his footing. Same
For Shaws penalty where he should have saved but was on shortened dive with 1 hand.

This coach said the first few penalties he faced he didn't do the negative step but was diving too early and was easy for takers. Rule for keepers is dive at contact of ball even if committing to one side. Often why takers delay final few steps of run up, like Rashford, to get them to go early as the keeper will try to time their dive with the run up.

After first few he reverted to type and was moving slightly early and on shortened dives. This combination has hindered him when facing penalties over last number of years.

It was well thought out and he showed previous tweets of this he'd done on the same subject with De Gea.

In the defence of the keepers. A lot of penalties where very well struck but interesting to see the breakdown by a GK coach and how technical they can get.

De Gea never looks like he'd reach the post even if his dive was continued. There was another stat how the number of penalties saved has reduced with VAR checking the keeper is on the line. Years ago that first step took them out and across. Tim Krul was one of the better stoppers and he was half a yard of the line most of the time. The keepers are missing that momentum in the dive so they're not getting as far across. The stop start runs aren't helping the keepers either. Even a bog average keeper in amateur leagues used that positive step to get out a bit.

[bigarsedkeeper]

Henderson has to be back in? Really?

I'm not convinced on him either you know. He's a bit too rash some times, and he seems to think he should be secured 1st team football very early for a keeper.

Get rid of the 4 of them. Donnaruma is now a free agent, better than both options Utd have.

[gallsman]

Henderson has to be back in? Really?

I'm not convinced on him either you know. He's a bit too rash some times, and he seems to think he should be secured 1st team football very early for a keeper.

Get rid of the 4 of them. Donnaruma is now a free agent, better than both options Utd have.

All I can think of when people talk about Henderson is Salah's goal against him a few weeks ago. Basically invited him to pass the ball into the net. I get the distinct impression that the reason lots of United fans want Henderson (along with recency bias of de Gea not saving some world class penalties) is simply down to the fact he's not de Gea, rather than truly believing he's the answer.

Henderson has had plenty of opportunity this year and hasn't looked up to it in my opinion.

[Taylor]

Difficult to blame De Gea for those penalties last night.

Villareal's penalties for the most part were top notch.

If any keeper should have saved a few it was the Villareal keeper - some of Utds penalties were decidedly average.

Looks like De Gea is getting nailed for missing the actual penalty but people can see how daft that is so are going after him for not saving any

[bigarsedkeeper]

Henderson has to be back in? Really?

I'm not convinced on him either you know. He's a bit too rash some times, and he seems to think he should be secured 1st team football very early for a keeper.

Get rid of the 4 of them. Donnaruma is now a free agent, better than both options Utd have.

All I can think of when people talk about Henderson is Salah's goal against him a few weeks ago. Basically invited him to pass the ball into the net. I get the distinct impression that the reason lots of United fans want Henderson (along with recency bias of de Gea not saving some world class penalties) is simply down to the fact he's not de Gea, rather than truly believing he's the answer.

Henderson has had plenty of opportunity this year and hasn't looked up to it in my opinion.

For a keeper he's very young but he seems very impatient. Some things he did improved the team to be fair to him but United can't carry an erratic keeper.

It feels we are more at the Bosnich/Bartez/Howard/Carroll stage keeper wise. All had their strengths but all had massive gaps that made the team less than when they had Schmeichel and Van Der Sar. That might seem unfair as they are probably 2 of the best there has been but that's were you need to be.

[BennyCake]

Henderson has to be back in? Really?

I'm not convinced on him either you know. He's a bit too rash some times, and he seems to think he should be secured 1st team football very early for a keeper.

Get rid of the 4 of them. Donnaruma is now a free agent, better than both options Utd have.

All I can think of when people talk about Henderson is Salah's goal against him a few weeks ago. Basically invited him to pass the ball into the net. I get the distinct impression that the reason lots of United fans want Henderson (along with recency bias of de Gea not saving some world class penalties) is simply down to the fact he's not de Gea, rather than truly believing he's the answer.

Henderson has had plenty of opportunity this year and hasn't looked up to it in my opinion.

I was never sure Henderson was the answer. He had a good spell at Sheffield U and thought he deserved his chance. He should be given a full season, hopefully he'll come good, behind a settled back four.

This last 5/6 years, I hoped United would get Schmeichel, as he's the best around. He's 34 now, so the odds of United getting him are becoming less and less (although they did sign VDS around that age).

[From the Bunker]

I was never sure Henderson was the answer. He had a good spell at Sheffield U and thought he deserved his chance. He should be given a full season, hopefully he'll come good, behind a settled back four.

This last 5/6 years, I hoped United would get Schmeichel, as he's the best around. He's 34 now, so the odds of United getting him are becoming less and less (although they did sign VDS around that age).

Schmeichel is 35 this year same age as when Utd signed VDS. Can't see it happening. Schmeichel is well settled at Leicester.

Henderson was a good Goalkeeper at SU. But the pressures at smaller clubs are less. There can also be a sort of freedom for a player being on loan at a club. You have to presume there was a correlation in SU's loss of form this season and Henderson returning to Utd.

[Helix.]

I'm not convinced with Sancho. Wouldn't be half the hype if he wasn't English.

Don't think that's true at all, Sancho is outstanding. Bellingham is even better.

I agree with Bellingham point he's exceptional. I would happily be proved wrong with Sancho but time will tell.

[Milltown Row2]

It's not about the penalties, Utd had enough class and technical players to win the game in normal time, penal are a lottery, keepers get lucky when saving them.

[Jeepers Creepers]

It's not about the penalties, Utd had enough class and technical players to win the game in normal time, penal are a lottery, keepers get lucky when saving them.

Exactly. Keepers aren't expected to save penalties and especially not score them. Although the one person you would expect to stick their boot behind the ball!? As I posted during the game taking Greenwood off and leaving Rashford on was massive error. Greenwood was constantly taking players on and getting around them. Rushford's performance was very Martial 'esque'. Tried and failed to get round a defender early on and failed that seemed to set the stall out. And yes UTd have the quality to win over 90mins. They just didn't. Very cagey performance from them and only themselves to blame. Emery still probably walking about slapping himself on the back. On a side note as a Utd fan I don't think Henderson is the answer to the goal keeping problems.