Man Utd Thread:

[Boycey]

In Seafoid mode here, good read from Mark Ogden

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/club/manchester-united/360/blog/post/3327213/jose-mourinho-right-to-say-more-cash-needed-for-manchester-united-rebuild

Simple question would these problems still exist under A.N. other manager that some people crave or would we be going toe to toe with City at the top??

On the face of it, Wednesday was a bad day for Jose Mourinho. Manchester City stretched their lead at the top of the Premier League to 15 points and Liverpool made Virgil van Dijk the world's most expensive defender by striking a £75 million deal with Southampton for the Netherlands centre-back.

Just 24 hours after insisting that Manchester United could only close the gap on Pep Guardiola's league leaders by spending more money, Mourinho must have felt that he was being hit from both sides with City coasting to victory at Newcastle and Liverpool's American owners sanctioning the huge move for Van Dijk.

But the flip side for Mourinho is that the events of Wednesday evening offered him the ammunition, if needed, to strong-arm United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward, and the Glazer family, United's owners, into coming up with the funds he believes are required to make his team contenders rather than merely the best of the rest.

There was little immediate support for Mourinho in the wake of his comments, following Tuesday's 2-2 Old Trafford draw against Burnley, which suggested that, despite spending more than £300m on new players since arriving at United 18 months ago, the team still needed much more investment in order to compete with City.

But the reality is that, regardless of the vast sums spent by Mourinho at United, they are still in need of at least four players to take them to the level at which both they and the manager expect to be.

United under Mourinho are a paradox, so his comments cannot be dismissed out of hand as little more than sour grapes after spending a fortune.

The money spent has triggered a big improvement at United under Mourinho -- they won two major trophies in his first season last year and they currently sit second in the Premier League with 10 more points than at the same stage of last season.

After drifting for three years under David Moyes and then Louis van Gaal following Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement in 2013, when fourth was the best finish United achieved, Mourinho has made United strong again and taken them back above the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea.

The only problem for Mourinho and United is that City have pulled away from them and everybody else, disappearing over the horizon at a rate of knots.

As a result, United's improvement under Mourinho has been distorted by the performances of the team three miles across Manchester at the Etihad Stadium.

So while United's big spending on the likes of Paul Pogba and Romelu Lukaku has worked to a certain extent, in taking them above the pack, it has not come close to landing a blow on City.

There are many reasons for United's failure to compete with City and the spending gap over the last 18 months is only one of them.
Guardiola has signed 16 players as City manager, with Mourinho recruiting seven for United.

In terms of basic figures, Guardiola has outspent Mourinho by £75m in his time at the Etihad, but that figure leaps to £110m if add-ons and incentives are included.
Either way, City have invested more in their squad, both financially and in terms of personnel, since Guardiola arrived than United have under Mourinho.
And Guardiola was working with stronger foundations when he walked into the Etihad than those Mourinho inherited at Old Trafford.

City's squad was a strong one that was under-performing. United's was a collection of good, bad and indifferent signings which had been drained of confidence and belief by Moyes and Van Gaal
.
Mourinho had more work to do with the United squad than Guardiola at City and the £300m was needed -- but he clearly needs to spend more, not to be better than the rest, but to compete with City.

Only time will tell whether that money will be forthcoming, but with United needing two new full-backs, at least one midfielder, a left winger and a No. 10 in the mould of Eden Hazard or Philippe Coutinho, Woodward and the Glazers will not get much change out of £200m.

But United's owners are now discovering the full cost of their spending policy during the final years of Ferguson when, following the £80m world-record sale of Cristiano Ronaldo to Real Madrid in 2009, they sought 'value' signings rather than the stellar deals being done by City for the likes of Yaya Toure, David Silva and Sergio Aguero.


A combination of arrogance, complacency and stubbornness saw United stand aside while City invested in both the present and the future.

The failure to keep step with City in the transfer market in the early years of this decade is why United have spent the post-Ferguson years spending, and wasting, money in a misguided attempt to close the gap. It is why £300m has not been enough for Mourinho to make them title challengers.

The former Chelsea manager has made it clear what he and the team needs to do that. So what happens next will tell us whether United still have the ambition to be the best or if being the best of the rest is enough.

[Cunny Funt]

The idea that Man Coty will continually dominate is outlandish in the extreme.

Kompany just got injured and it looks serious
Apart from de bruyne he is their most influential player
PL is in the bag but CL is looking shaky

It's 4 or 5 years since kompany was one of Citys most influential players.  Their strength in depth is so good right now that they didn't need to use arguably the best striker in the league in the Manchester Derby. They will either win this season's champions league or the team that beats them will win it.

[seafoid]

The idea that Man City will continually dominate is outlandish in the extreme.

Why? They have the money. They have the manager.

[magpie seanie]

What member of the starting Manchester City team even set foot in the City Academy, much less came up through their system?

I might have known you'd be the first one to totally miss the point.

City have set up a talent evaluation and identification structure. They buy the players they want that fit what they wish to achieve. They'll still invest in their academy but it's not going to be a major source of first team players like it was for United 20 odd years ago. Those days are gone though if there are good kids in their hinterland they're well placed to pick them up.

[Syferus]

What member of the starting Manchester City team even set foot in the City Academy, much less came up through their system?

I might have known you'd be the first one to totally miss the point.

City have set up a talent evaluation and identification structure. They buy the players they want that fit what they wish to achieve. They'll still invest in their academy but it's not going to be a major source of first team players like it was for United 20 odd years ago. Those days are gone though if there are good kids in their hinterland they're well placed to pick them up.

I didn't miss the point. Thus far the Man City farm system of NYC FC, Melbourne City and Girona have provided little benefit to the parent club, all at a massive up front outlay. They're still just throwing money at the problem, albeit in interesting ways. They are doing nothing that United can't copy if it proves successful.

Articles like the one above are the sort of fluff pieces that always appear when a big club is doing well. Their decisions become prophetic, their management enlightened, their mistakes erased. City are a long way off the sort of dominance their neighbours enjoyed.

[Captain Obvious]

The idea that Man City will continually dominate is outlandish in the extreme.

Why? They have the money. They have the manager.

They will dominate for as long as Guardiola is manager there and will struggle to find a like for like replacement for him once he's gone.

[Minder]

Melbourne sold that baldy headed fella that scored for Huddersfield against United, for around £10m. That's roughly what they bought the club for.

[Milltown Row2]

Are people copping on eventually? I hope so.

Copping on to the fact that they are in a better position than last season? Have scored more goals and gained more points? Yep I think they have, Jose is no Ferguson but he'd not got a team which had the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, And the rest! There is no manager out there available to give you what you're looking...

Stop going over the same crap and explain who'd you want to bring Utd back to the swashbuckling style that won so many titles? I think Utd could win a league or two but won't dominate like they did before because of the many factors discussed before.

Ferguson, to his credit, built the club structures up and they yielded the Beckhams, Nevilles, Giggs etc - much like City have put in place the infrastructure to provide for continuity of success. Times have changed so it's no longer about bringing young players on, more about identifying the right type of talent to suit your style.City have that now. Moyes ripped those structures apart and David Gill, asshole that he was, was good at his job and has been replaced by a lightweight. Bringing in Mourinho was like trying to put a band aid on a gash that needs 30 stitches. A salty band aid at that.

You still haven't answered my question though

[magpie seanie]

I mentioned several other managers not long ago (and it wasn't the first time) so I'm not going to regurgitate it every time. It's plain to see Mourinho is about the worst fit possible so it wouldn't take a genius to replace him more appropriately. The derisory "swashbuckling style" comment is a bit unfair - all I want is the team to try and attack and play stuff that's good to watch and not be taking off attackers when 2-1 up against 10 men. I understand this isn't always possible and some games have to be ground out but it has to at least be the aspiration. It never will be with this man. He may win a league or two but I'm now surer than ever that he won't. Think he'll be gone in the summer.

[Milltown Row2]

In the games were Utd have fucked up I think (for me anyways) the players have made huge mistakes or Utd have not taken the chances that have presented them! Players like RVP and RVN would not have missed these chances when presented..

I actually can't think (other than Pep) of a manager who'll improve Utd at the minute

[Cunny Funt]

I mentioned several other managers not long ago (and it wasn't the first time) so I'm not going to regurgitate it every time. It's plain to see Mourinho is about the worst fit possible so it wouldn't take a genius to replace him more appropriately. The derisory "swashbuckling style" comment is a bit unfair - all I want is the team to try and attack and play stuff that's good to watch and not be taking off attackers when 2-1 up against 10 men. I understand this isn't always possible and some games have to be ground out but it has to at least be the aspiration. It never will be with this man. He may win a league or two but I'm now surer than ever that he won't. Think he'll be gone in the summer.

What attacker was taken off, the now familiar Rashford for Martial swap? Can hardly say little attacking was done in that game as a number of clear cut chances was missed.

The Glazers got rid of VanGaal and Moyes because of a failure to reach the top four. So unless you think Mourinho will walk away himself its looking unlikely that Man United will be finishing outside the top 4 this season.

[Boycey]

Haven't agreed with much Seanie has to say on here lately but I'd say he could leave at the end of the season. He's only on a 3 year contract I'm not sure either party is ready to commit to more and I can't him going into or them letting into a final year without a contract.

I also think you need to be careful what you wish for mind..

[Syferus]

Haven't agreed with much Seanie has to say on here lately but I'd say he could leave at the end of the season. He's only on a 3 year contract I'm not sure either party is ready to commit to more and I can't him going into or them letting into a final year without a contract.

I also think you need to be careful what you wish for mind..

I think it would be genuinely insane to let Jose walk after making progress in both seasons so far. You only need to look at the nonsense that proceded him to tell what could be in store. There's not much better options available anyways.

[seafoid]

I think mourino underestimated how much of a mess man Utd was in. He will do well in his next job...The Glazers don't care

[ned]

Melbourne sold that baldy headed fella that scored for Huddersfield against United, for around £10m. That's roughly what they bought the club for.

They have also recouped money from other transfers of youth players. Boyata and Ntcham both moved to Celtic from Man City youth structure. Patrick Roberts will command a decent fee when he moves on. Foden sppears to be a big prospect and in the following years you may find more coming through.