Man Utd Thread:

[NAG1]

As far as I can tell the issue is the length of the ban that Terry received in comparison to Suarez.

The Black players seem to believe that Terry got doing what he wanted because of who he is, plus the KIO representative was in the court to observe and not to back up Anton which is another bone of contention with these players. The players seem to feel that they have had no support from the authorities and when they had the chance to really make an example of some one being Racist the FA bottled it.

[Bingo]

Comparing what John Barnes put up with and then comparing it to the current age is laughable and then to say that things haven't improved much since then. FFS, things are a million miles from then and to say otherwise is just plain daft.

Any racism now is dealt with and punished.

[Norf Tyrone]

As far as I can tell the issue is the length of the ban that Terry received in comparison to Suarez.

The Black players seem to believe that Terry got doing what he wanted because of who he is, plus the KIO representative was in the court to observe and not to back up Anton which is another bone of contention with these players. The players seem to feel that they have had no support from the authorities and when they had the chance to really make an example of some one being Racist the FA bottled it.

And I kinda get that. If a player is guilty of racism they should receive a really hefty punishment, and I wouldn't dismiss saying that their Club should contemplate sacking them. However this is up to the FA and the Club. Surely Kick It Out have no influence here, so I am not sure why the players are taking their frustration out on them. KIO are a small organisation with a limited budget.

Spinning out of that I'd say Chelsea couldn't sack Terry as he was found not guilty in court therefore they were then wide open to a unfair dismissal claim. In additon a few years back Chelsea sacked Bosnich and Mutu. The media and opposition fans alike rounded on them, and said it was too 'harsh'. Chelsea were criticised again for chasing Mutu for compensation. So now they are getting criticised for being too lenient. Circumstances are slighly different but the overall context is relevant.

The other end of this is that a lot of Chelsea fans are very bemused by the whole Terry saga. The FA were very loose around their rules and procedures to make sure that Terry got 'done', so they can't understand how people think that the FA went light on him because of 'who he is'. They also struggle to understand how Rio and Frimpong escaped bans for similar offences, and how the media don't question this. It looks like the media are tip toeing around the issue.

[thewobbler]

It thoroughly pisses me off how sensitive everyone gets around racism.

I'm in no way undermining it or relegating it, but here's a few things to bear in mind:

- If Man United have a dress code then players should adhere to it. It's their job.
- the EPL can of course do more, but racism has been curbed in England better than in any other major league in Europe. It doesn't now need its black players turning it into a personal issue.
- if a white player made a public stance of not wearing the t shirt, it would be turned into a circus by Ferdinand and co.
- Anton Ferdinand, I imagine, has endured and resolved many worse things in his life than being called names by a Neanderthal like John Terry.

Football needs a collective stance against racism. The individualistic actions of Ferdinand and Danny Rose recently do not, in my opinion, further their cause. They look like spoilt children IMHO.

You could not be more wrong on this if you tried!

It is personal for black players, John Barnes was the first high profile player I remember who got absolutely destroyed by these racists cnuts and he hasn't played in 20 odd years, things have not improved much obviously since then.

"Spoilt children" Really................. I think that for the first time in his life Ferdinand has said enough is enough and he showed some balls by going against the wishes of the FA and refusing to back a campaign that is toothless and inept, it seems he is refusing to accept mediocrity on the race issue and I applaud him and the other players who did not have it in them to back a campaign that is essentially useless from their perspective and one were they feel they were manipulated into supporting.

Agree 100% Stew and a little surprised at Wobbler's comments, especially about Danny Rose.

I'll explain further then.

If you've ever watched Friday Night Lights (american TV show), they've a great storyline on how a few loose and unintended comments from a coach can evolve into a racism scandal. It just takes a bit of paranoia and a few extremists to get involved for everything to go awry.

What I'm wary off in situations like this is those extremists taking the issue by the scruff of the neck. The thought of a Black Players Union horrifies me. In order to have a voice they need an agenda, and that agenda will almost certainly be delivered by those of a more militant persuasion. Strikes will be demanded. That's strikes in a league that is probably the most pro-active for racial equality and togetherness in Europe.

What I'd like Rio and Danny Rose to do is to help improve and put direction on the Kick It Out campaign. Build on what's there already. Utterly demand equality, but stay away from independence. It might mean a rebrand and a new charter, but the principles are in place and they are generally working.

Making public and petulant stances of "it's not enough, it's not good enough", does not add to the cause, it just deepens division.

[AZOffaly]

But wobbler, you accused Danny Rose of being childish. This was not a few PC feathers being ruffled, it was apparently an example of full blown, monkey chant abuse. In that case I don't think he was childish.

I do think you are correct in that a black militant lobby within the player base is a bit dangerous, and for it to be really effective it has to be a joint, inclusive campaign. However, I don't think that is what is going on here. I think the players are just saying they are unimpressed with this particular campaign, and feel that the powers that be are not going far enough. There's no question that English soccer is a far more friendly place for a black player now, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues bubbling under the surface. Obviously something is annoying these players, and it's not just Ferdinand. Quite a few black players boycotted that t-shirt display on Saturday.

I heard a quote, by a black player, on Sky Sports News, where the chairman of the KIO campaign was being hassled for not doing enough and his response was 'I'm not hear to speak out for black players, who are rich'. If the mindset is that they only want to protect the poor cotton pickers, then it's completely off base.

[Norf Tyrone]

Agree with that Wobbler. Now is the time to back up and support KIO.

[magpie seanie]

Good piece here, don't expect everyone to agree mind....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/23/roy-keane-book-extract

[Declan]

Enjoyed that Seanie - I always thought Keane's performance in the 96 final was unreal - My memory of it was it appeared that the Liverpool lads were scared of him (now I know why

[5 Sams]

I was there for the performance against the Dutch in Landsdowne Road lads in 2001. People rave about Trigger's goal and the defensive heroics but Keane's display was close to the best I have ever seen from anyone in any sport. Better even than the Juve semi in 99.

[EC Unique]

The fact that he is so hated by other fans is testament to how effective he was as a player. The English league has never seen the like of him since. I only wish Utd could find another Roy Keane.

[stew]

Comparing what John Barnes put up with and then comparing it to the current age is laughable and then to say that things haven't improved much since then. FFS, things are a million miles from then and to say otherwise is just plain daft.

Any racism now is dealt with and punished.

Racism is never............................and I mean never, a laughing matter.

Serbian fans are still throwing bananas, the Lazio scum are still at their facist shite and you have a young Englishman getting absolutely destroyed in an U21 with racist scum abusing him.

Things are still very bad, the Spanish have their issues with racism, I do agree with Wobbler on one thing, a black players union would be divisive and would be a very big step in the wrong direction.

[EC Unique]

If there was a union that only black players could join would that not be racist?

[Captain Obvious]

The fact that he is so hated by other fans is testament to how effective he was as a player. The English league has never seen the like of him since. I only wish Utd could find another Roy Keane.

Won't find one. The hard hitting defensive midfielder is dead and players get sent off for next to nothing nowadays.

[NAG1]

What's the verdict on the Diamond formation?

Not convinced myself as the team looked really powder puff in the middle of the park at times against Braga, I suppose this might improve by bringing Rio and Vidic back to central defence and strengthening the team in general. Puts a massive onus on the Full backs to get forward and provide the width and alot of creativity. Not something that any of the current crop of full backs are massively good at.

Interesting times, when you are able to leave, Young Valencia and Nani on the bench to play this system though.

[Goats Do Shave]

I like it. It's very fluid. Front 3/4 should go where there's space, constantly changing, give n go.

It's success will be very reliant on workrate though.