Armagh v Derry - Ulster Final, 14th May, 2023 @ 4pm

[Mario]

Ah here, Campbell getting "shoved in the back" stretches the limits of credulity. He was lightly tackled from either side. You could maybe just about find a foul with it if you tried hard enough but he certainly went down easily. Lynch was definitely shouldered inside the box for the 45 but then should have been done for over carrying before the throw ball.

The trip on McGuigan I didn't think was that big a deal to be honest. Looked as if his hand more brushed against his leg in an attempt to trip. Certainly didn't have a good grip of him or clobber his leg a la Peter Stringer. Morgan still being on McGuigan at that stage possibly the biggest indictment of Armagh management on the day.

11 min 55 seconds. Clear 2 hands in his back
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LLLv8ABONac&pp=ygUlYXJtYWdoIHZzIGRlcnJ5IGZ1bGwgbWF0Y2ggZXh0cmEgdGltZQ%3D%3D

That's not what it shows at all. It most certainly does not show a "shove".

It's maybe not a shove but that's generally always given as a free.
Didn't need to do it either as there was a defender right in front of him and mcfaul to his other side. Just needed to track him and it would probably have been turned over.
So no complaints on that one.
Campbell always looked like being able to generate something.  Was armaghs most dangerous player, don't understand why he didn't start. Maybe fitness?

McGeeney seems to be getting critised for this one but i'm assuming he didn't start because their game plan was to keep it tight then use him as an impact sub 2nd half. I think it worked. Campbell wouldn't have been able to run through like that in the first half when players are fresh and structures are more rigid and if he started he would be less impactful when game is in the melting pot.

[LeoMc]

What do you make of the call at the end of extra time when Gough decided it was a throw up.

I though that the Derry Keeper over carried the ball and then stood over it like he was protecting a ruck in rugby obstructing Armagh players from getting to it.

The genius that is Maurice Deegan on BBC said that both teams fouled the ball and that's why a throw up was given 

That was the end of normal time... it was overcarrying but after that they were all at the same thing and nothing was happening with the ball so a hop ball was fair enough.

One for MR2 there.
Could Gough have simply blown for full time whilst the ruck was forming or did he need to call a throw up ball to get it into open play before blowing for full time?

[Wildweasel74]

If that last one was a free, there were then a no. Of 2/3 man tackles going in with both arms frailing which should bee. Fouls. Players seem to tackle slapping with both arms now all the time, must be the way they taught now. When I was very young it was always one hand in, the other out , as to not give the easy call of a foul.

[Keyser soze]

A really bad way for any team to lose a final, felt sorry for the Armagh players and supporters.

Gough made some mistakes yesterday, as anyone would, and they probably balanced each other out. It's his HERE LOOK AT MEEEEEEE attitude that annoys my happiness.

Campbell was brilliant for Armagh, as a Derry man was delighted he didn't start.

McEvoy was great for us, so competitive for such a young lad.

Armagh discipline in the 'tackle' is still appalling, some fouling machines who have been doing it for years still doing the same stupid stuff and then looking surprised each of the ten times per games they give a free away.

Couldn't understand why Armagh didn't push up on the Derry KO when they had the breeze, showed a bit of a defeatist attitude, as did their team selection IMO.

[InnocentByStander]

As a neutral at the game yesterday I thought Gough was very harsh on Derry.
The last 45 to bring the game to a point, lynch caught the ball in his 6 yard box and was shouldered out, unless the rule has changed i didn't think you can touch the keeper in 6 yard box.
Let Rafferty away with murder on how long he was taking with his kickouts too.

[yellowcard]

Ah here, Campbell getting "shoved in the back" stretches the limits of credulity. He was lightly tackled from either side. You could maybe just about find a foul with it if you tried hard enough but he certainly went down easily. Lynch was definitely shouldered inside the box for the 45 but then should have been done for over carrying before the throw ball.

The trip on McGuigan I didn't think was that big a deal to be honest. Looked as if his hand more brushed against his leg in an attempt to trip. Certainly didn't have a good grip of him or clobber his leg a la Peter Stringer. Morgan still being on McGuigan at that stage possibly the biggest indictment of Armagh management on the day.

11 min 55 seconds. Clear 2 hands in his back
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LLLv8ABONac&pp=ygUlYXJtYWdoIHZzIGRlcnJ5IGZ1bGwgbWF0Y2ggZXh0cmEgdGltZQ%3D%3D

That's not what it shows at all. It most certainly does not show a "shove".

It's maybe not a shove but that's generally always given as a free.
Didn't need to do it either as there was a defender right in front of him and mcfaul to his other side. Just needed to track him and it would probably have been turned over.
So no complaints on that one.
Campbell always looked like being able to generate something.  Was armaghs most dangerous player, don't understand why he didn't start. Maybe fitness?

McGeeney seems to be getting critised for this one but i'm assuming he didn't start because their game plan was to keep it tight then use him as an impact sub 2nd half. I think it worked. Campbell wouldn't have been able to run through like that in the first half when players are fresh and structures are more rigid and if he started he would be less impactful when game is in the melting pot.

Its a huge gamble though giving him 25 minutes as opposed to 70 in order to make an impact. We done the same against Donegal in Ballybofey last year and we were 7 points down and the game was effectively over before they brought him on with 25 minutes left. After that he started every game and lit the spark to reignite our season. I'll never understand this theory of holding one of your best players on the bench to see the game out. 

[twohands!!!]

Ah here, Campbell getting "shoved in the back" stretches the limits of credulity. He was lightly tackled from either side. You could maybe just about find a foul with it if you tried hard enough but he certainly went down easily. Lynch was definitely shouldered inside the box for the 45 but then should have been done for over carrying before the throw ball.

The trip on McGuigan I didn't think was that big a deal to be honest. Looked as if his hand more brushed against his leg in an attempt to trip. Certainly didn't have a good grip of him or clobber his leg a la Peter Stringer. Morgan still being on McGuigan at that stage possibly the biggest indictment of Armagh management on the day.

11 min 55 seconds. Clear 2 hands in his back
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LLLv8ABONac&pp=ygUlYXJtYWdoIHZzIGRlcnJ5IGZ1bGwgbWF0Y2ggZXh0cmEgdGltZQ%3D%3D

That's not what it shows at all. It most certainly does not show a "shove".

Definite foul - classic case of tackling the man as opposed to the ball.

[Estimator]

Delighted to get out of Clones with the win. Great occasion, plenty of colour and noise. A bit of history as well. Probably similar to last year - the nervous tense energy at the game, doesn't translate well to the TV audience.  Though yesterday's game was a better spectacle than the Donegal final.

At various times I thought we were in complete control. Rogers fisted effort off the post could've been the winning of the game. That would've have given Derry the 3pt cushion that might have killed the game at that point. But Armagh dominated for periods as well, especially round the middle. Thought it was game over when Armagh took the 2pt lead in second half injury time. Thankfully we clawed it back, or Armagh threw it away depending on your view point.

The penalties just added to the overall occasion.  The only thing I was disappointed in was the fact they were taken at the Eastern Stand end and not the O'Duffy terrace, where I was standing. I'm making the assumption that Glass won the toss an elected for that end as it seemed there was a majority of Derry fans behind that goal.

There was lot of unforced errors from Derry, especially at the start of the game.. Sloppy hand passes, and dropped balls, taking 2/3 attempts at picking it up when under no pressure at all, which they got away with as Armagh had initially dropped off.

Armagh brought a level of intensity throughtou that caused Derry a number of issues, they did appear to be laying a few traps, of seemingly no one pressuring the ball, then all of a sudden, they were all over the ball carrier. But the majority of the 'tackling' is borderline at best. Especially those swinging arm tackles. One that hasn't been mentioned yet, was one against McCloskey in the second half, he was definitely very annoyed at a hit on him. Free given, but it from my viewpoint, McCloskey felt it was a punch to the ribs.

Armagh troubled Derry at times with the kickout. But I never understand any team including Derry, handing possession and short kickouts too the opposition as soon as they go a couple of points up.  To me that is the time to hem them in and force them into further errors, and it was clear Armagh dropped off in the second half of extra time when they were leading.

Very happy with the way Derry contained the scoring threat of the Armagh forward line. 4/6 didn't score and only 4pts from play in total.  But Derry need to get more out of their bench in the upcoming group fixtures. What good is a panel, even a small one, if you don't trust players to do a job. Armagh used 21 players, Derry 18. Grugan was the only substituted player from Armagh to come back on. But Heron, Murray and Loughlin made a couple of appearances. And it sounds like McGrogan was due to come back on to take a penalty, but Derry ran out of time to make that substitution.

Thought Gough's performance was all over the place. Felt he favoured Armagh in the 50/50 calls, but realistically when he blew the whistle, you didn't know which way he was going to point. Plenty of over-carrying, but only remember one free given. Lynch was done on a kick-out for delaying too long, yet he didn't bother with the timings after that. Lynch pushed out over the line end and a 45 given. Almost happened again with Grugan's last kick. Gough opted for the throw up. No argument about Campbell's free, though he was looking for one, it was a free. You'd be fairly annoyed if you didn't get a free for that.

Just about got the victory, but still plenty to work on.

[tyrone08]

For me the biggest incorrect call was forcing armagh to retake the kick out after they won possession. Not sure why he did that but thought it gave Derry a chance to get possession back.

[JimStynes]

For me the biggest incorrect call was forcing armagh to retake the kick out after they won possession. Not sure why he did that but thought it gave Derry a chance to get possession back.

Was he not in the middle of speaking to a player and the kick was taken with his back to the play and hadn't called for the restart?

[Armagh18]

For me the biggest incorrect call was forcing armagh to retake the kick out after they won possession. Not sure why he did that but thought it gave Derry a chance to get possession back.

He spoke to someone for something off the ball, don't even think he booked them or anything ffs.

[Wildweasel74]

O'Neill was throwing g his weight around again and he had went to talk to him.

[Armagh18]

O'Neill was throwing g his weight around again and he had went to talk to him.

McKauigue shoulda been booked a lot earlier for his off the ball shit on O'Neill

[skeog]

Is that a new thing presenting ball to winning captain.

[naka]

For me the biggest incorrect call was forcing armagh to retake the kick out after they won possession. Not sure why he did that but thought it gave Derry a chance to get possession back.

derry scored from the retaken kickout a real poor call

mc guigans antics also were poor, in game he was lying as if shot then jumps up
the penalty antics even worse

thought rogers excellent as well as the derry keeper who takes a lot of criticism, still really dont see where the pundits have tyrone as the team out of ulster to win sam as i am sure Derry wouldnt fear them