Greatest player never to win an all Ireland

[Armagh18]

To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.

In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.

If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!

Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.

The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.

It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards

Moran, Cillian O'Connor, McDonald and Tommy Conroy? Maybe send Mattie Forde as well to be safe.

[oakleaflad]

To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.

Not even remotely close on paper for me.

[seafoid]

Breheny's List:
1.   Dermot Early
2.   Lee Keegan
3.   Mickey Kearins
4.   Nudie Hughes
5.   Glenn Ryan
6.   Kevin O'Brien
7.   Eugene McKenna
8.   Declan Browne
9.   Joe Kernan
10.   Mattie Forde
11.   John Galvin
12.   Paddy Moriarty
13.   Peter McGinnity
14.   Tony McManus
15.   Dessie Dolan
16.   Harry Keegan
17.   Liam McHale
18.   Keith Higgins
19.   Noel Roche
20.   Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.

This list is confined to the past 50 years I think. From a Galway POV, no TJ Gilmore, Val Daly or Michael Meehan to say the least. Ciaran MacDonald too. Dessie Dolan shouldn't be near that list, plenty of better others that were also unsuccessful.

He only included players from a particular list of counties that never won Sam in the modern era (unless after the player in question retired eg Armagh.) No Meath, Cork, Down, Dub, Kerry, Galway, Offaly, Derry or Tyrone. It's like a beal bocht list.

[seafoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Zh0CE-lzA

[Blowitupref]

To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.

In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.

If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!

Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.

The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.

It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards

Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.

2021 -  2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 -  2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13

Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?

[Armagh18]

To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.

In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.

If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!

Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.

The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.

It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards

Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.

2021 -  2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 -  2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13

Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?

Jesus that 2016 defeat must be fairly sickening. Far better team that day only for the own goals.

[seafoid]

If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.

[Manning18]

To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.

In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.

If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!

Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.

The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.

It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards

Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.

2021 -  2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 -  2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13

Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?

Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.

The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.

Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once

[Armagh18]

If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.

Or Murphy. He's a Mayo man anyway isn't he

[Blowitupref]

If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.

Or Murphy. He's a Mayo man anyway isn't he

They had Cillian O'Connor who's finished championship top scorer on a few occasions. Andy Moran who wasn't too shabby either. Including footballer of the year one season.

Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.

The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.

Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once

Mayo more than played their role in the higher winning scoring totals

Look at the average conceded for winners in finals over the last decade. Mayos habit of conceding goals many of them sloppy has been a big issue that was never sorted out.

[Manning18]

Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.

The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.

Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once

Mayo more than played their role in the higher winning scoring totals

Look at the average conceded for winners in finals over the last decade. Mayos habit of conceding goals many of them sloppy has been a big issue that was never sorted out.

I don't think there was a choice tbh. What made Mayo good, and also why their matches were usually entertaining, was because they needed to go man to man and make the game chaotic. Partly because they had very good man to man markers but mainly because their forwards were bang average. If mayo played the cagey game of 4 forwards up and sweepers etc, the results would be, and indeed were, shambolic. The 3 consecutive defeats to Galway in Connacht were evidence of that because Kevin Walsh realised that if you clogged the game up effectively, ultimately he trusted that he had the few forwards who could score while being overmanned and without space and Mayo didn't. And that's even with Mayo having a far better overall team at the time

Mayo needed all 6 forwards in attack, and more importantly, good runners from defence, to create scores. That's always going to lead to counter attack or high ball goal opportunities for the opposition. Thats the trade off they needed to make and accepted.

Dublin, to their credit but also perhaps stupidity, decided to play Mayo man to man in all those games. It suited Mayo perfectly and it made the games entertaining, and ultimately Dublin trusted that they'd get enough goal chances that way to win, which they did just about. You are also dancing with fire playing that was against Dublin though, which we ultiamtely saw in both the 2015 replay and 2019 when they tore mayo apart and put 3 past them

[Blowitupref]

Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.

[seafoid]

Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.

Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s

[From the Bunker]

Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.

Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s

I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.

[seafoid]

Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.

Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s

I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.

The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example

From the 70s to  the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.

Mayo is the last great unfinished job.