Hurling 2024

Started by seafoid, January 01, 2023, 08:24:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

johnnycool

Quote from: marty34 on June 10, 2024, 05:49:26 PMKilkenny blew Dublin out of it. Really hungry and agressive - typical Kilkenny.  Dublin downed tools after5 mins, which was disappointing.  They are good in the tight confines or Parnell Park but, for whatever reason, they struggle in Croke Park. In fairness to KK,they were ruthless. They have mixed it up a bit this year and it's working well. Another run out in Croke Park beckons. John Donnelly and Mullan in great form from play.

In Munster, Clare needed the goal chances to go in...and they didn't.  Always seemed to be playing catchup. Cleary is not mobile enough for Gillane. Limerick leave an acre of space in front for Gillane to run in to and all Cleary can do is pull and drag. Always guaranteed to get a yellow card. Why don't they switch and put the keeper 10 yards in front of Gillane?

Clare didn't seem to have that buzz about them yesterday - a bit flat.  Summed up well by the performance of TK. He was disappointing by his own his standards. Limerick were excellent. They work so hard and always stick to the process.

A special mention to young O'Brien at full-forward. Nearly MOTM for me.  He was excellent. Any ball that went in tended to stick.  Imagine no Sean Finn, Peter Casey, Seamie Flannagan or Darragh O'Donovan. Crazy team.     




marty34

#1411
Quote from: johnnycool on June 11, 2024, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 10, 2024, 05:49:26 PMKilkenny blew Dublin out of it. Really hungry and agressive - typical Kilkenny.  Dublin downed tools after5 mins, which was disappointing.  They are good in the tight confines or Parnell Park but, for whatever reason, they struggle in Croke Park. In fairness to KK,they were ruthless. They have mixed it up a bit this year and it's working well. Another run out in Croke Park beckons. John Donnelly and Mullan in great form from play.

In Munster, Clare needed the goal chances to go in...and they didn't.  Always seemed to be playing catchup. Cleary is not mobile enough for Gillane. Limerick leave an acre of space in front for Gillane to run in to and all Cleary can do is pull and drag. Always guaranteed to get a yellow card. Why don't they switch and put the keeper 10 yards in front of Gillane?

Clare didn't seem to have that buzz about them yesterday - a bit flat.  Summed up well by the performance of TK. He was disappointing by his own his standards. Limerick were excellent. They work so hard and always stick to the process.

A special mention to young O'Brien at full-forward. Nearly MOTM for me.  He was excellent. Any ball that went in tended to stick.  Imagine no Sean Finn, Peter Casey, Seamie Flannagan or Darragh O'Donovan. Crazy team.     





I was there.

Gillane stays in on the goaline beside the keeper and there's 30 yards of space, from sideline to sideline, in front of him.

He knows he has the pace and mobility for Cleary and he's done it year after year and Clare are not learning from it.  I'm sure Gillane is delighted when he knows Cleary will be marking him.

It'll not work all the time but Gillane loves to be in on the goalline and sprints ou.  His movement is very good in fsirness. Top player.  I see his brother was sub keeper yesterday.

This is what happens and it happened on Sunday once again:

Cleary pulls and drags Gillane constantly.  He gave 2 frees away on Sunday when Gillane was making his runs and 2 handy frees at that. 

Next thing, Cleary gets the yellow card.

Next thing. He's taken off with 15mins/20mins to go.

If you have any better ideas, we'll listen.




Milltown Row2

Sweeper keeper isn't exactly working out in football nowadays, teams are catching on and working traps to catch out the role of the keeper. The same will happen in hurling if that was done, I get the idea of it but Gillane can win his own ball high or low or out to the wings, if there is an empty net, I'd say its easier to strike it with the hurl to an empty net at their level than football.

The center half has to help out the area in front of him and the midfield has to drop back a bit to cover that space, there was always (in my days) a defensive midfielder and an attacking one, Not sure those roles are done anymore but anyone marking Gillane needs help outfield to reduce those balls going in, and that starts at corner forward!

Limerick didn't really give Clare any easy balls out other that the short puck outs, and when they did they closed them down quick enough to cause the odd mistake and turnover

Will know more about Corks consistency over the next game or two to see if they are a contender or whether Kilkenny were great and can improve or Dublin just threw the towel in
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

johnnycool

Quote from: marty34 on June 11, 2024, 08:48:26 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 11, 2024, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 10, 2024, 05:49:26 PMKilkenny blew Dublin out of it. Really hungry and agressive - typical Kilkenny.  Dublin downed tools after5 mins, which was disappointing.  They are good in the tight confines or Parnell Park but, for whatever reason, they struggle in Croke Park. In fairness to KK,they were ruthless. They have mixed it up a bit this year and it's working well. Another run out in Croke Park beckons. John Donnelly and Mullan in great form from play.

In Munster, Clare needed the goal chances to go in...and they didn't.  Always seemed to be playing catchup. Cleary is not mobile enough for Gillane. Limerick leave an acre of space in front for Gillane to run in to and all Cleary can do is pull and drag. Always guaranteed to get a yellow card. Why don't they switch and put the keeper 10 yards in front of Gillane?

Clare didn't seem to have that buzz about them yesterday - a bit flat.  Summed up well by the performance of TK. He was disappointing by his own his standards. Limerick were excellent. They work so hard and always stick to the process.

A special mention to young O'Brien at full-forward. Nearly MOTM for me.  He was excellent. Any ball that went in tended to stick.  Imagine no Sean Finn, Peter Casey, Seamie Flannagan or Darragh O'Donovan. Crazy team.     





I was there.

Gillane stays in on the goaline beside the keeper and there's 30 yards of space, from sideline to sideline, in front of him.

He knows he has the pace and mobility for Cleary and he's done it year after year and Clare are not learning from it.  I'm sure Gillane is delighted when he knows Cleary will be marking him.

It'll not work all the time but Gillane loves to be in on the goalline and sprints ou.  His movement is very good in fsirness. Top player.  I see his brother was sub keeper yesterday.

This is what happens and it happened on Sunday once again:

Cleary pulls and drags Gillane constantly.  He gave 2 frees away on Sunday when Gillane was making his runs and 2 handy frees at that. 

Next thing, Cleary gets the yellow card.

Next thing. He's taken off with 15mins/20mins to go.

If you have any better ideas, we'll listen.



I understand the conundrum that Limerick create for opposing teams in that regard and they do target those spaces out on the wings, drop your halfbacks a bit to cover that and they'll kill you with points from out the field, push up and Gillane and the bull have acres of space to work in.
Play a sweeper and they'll work the space and time to negate that too.
The only thing to cause Limerick problems this year is Corks directness and lads running off the breaking ball at pace. They'll have a plan for that the next time they meet.

Quilligan doesn't seem to be the paciest, nor bravest when it comes to the outfield stuff as we saw from the Hegarty goal. but if he does vacate the goal-line they'll target that right away and with even bigger consequences.

Easier said that done, but whoever does get the better of them will need to stop the runners coming through the middle and picking out the spaces for the bull and Guillane and make that ball dirtier to give the defenders a chance to negate them.
Clares problem at the minute is that Conlon and Cleary aren't mobile enough to cover those spaces, and anyone they have who has the pace hasn't the physical presence to handle Guillane if the Limerick lads go direct.

Guillane is the perfect target man in modern hurling, closely followed by the likes of Eoin Cody...




marty34

What you say is all well and good but all I'm saying is Clare have to try something.

This Cleary issue has happened year after year, twice in fact every year - in group and Munster Final.  Not Cleary's fault by the way as he's a spoiler and suits lads like T.J. and Horgan etc. If you can't stop the quality ball coming in then you must try and block Gillane coming out.

If you watch Gillane closely (obviously not seen on tv) but he stands in the square a lot of the time. Quilligan is in there but stands behind him. All he has to do is stand 5 yards in front and read the ball. Not sure how fast he is.

It might work or might not. Even if he blocks Gillane's run off a bit, giving time for Cleary to get out it might help.

But to do nothing is foolish and to let the same thing happen time after time is poor.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: marty34 on June 11, 2024, 07:25:31 PMWhat you say is all well and good but all I'm saying is Clare have to try something.

This Cleary issue has happened year after year, twice in fact every year - in group and Munster Final.  Not Cleary's fault by the way as he's a spoiler and suits lads like T.J. and Horgan etc. If you can't stop the quality ball coming in then you must try and block Gillane coming out.

If you watch Gillane closely (obviously not seen on tv) but he stands in the square a lot of the time. Quilligan is in there but stands behind him. All he has to do is stand 5 yards in front and read the ball. Not sure how fast he is.

It might work or might not. Even if he blocks Gillane's run off a bit, giving time for Cleary to get out it might help.

But to do nothing is foolish and to let the same thing happen time after time is poor.

He was pretty poor getting off his line for Hegartys goal.

Keepers, natural keepers are traditional enough still, taking the return from pass to fullback from puck outs is the limit.

Still thinking teams need to avoid midfield and halfback lines of limerick..

Or as Cork did was run at them, make Limerick foul or break their lines, certain referees will not allow some of the physicality they bring to the game..

What will stop or reduce their play is being on top of their hand passes..

Would love to have a slow mo on a lot of their hand passes
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Saffrongael

You don't need the slo mo, they are throwing them
Let no-one say the best hurlers belong to the past. They are with us now, and better yet to come

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2024, 10:09:31 PMYou don't need the slo mo, they are throwing them

I've blown for throws and have asked to see the odd match I've done, what I've seen at the match is completely different to when I watched the slow mo.

They ended up as proper passes!

Like I said I'd love to see everyone of Lynch's passes, they all look like fouls
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Franko

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 11, 2024, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2024, 10:09:31 PMYou don't need the slo mo, they are throwing them

I've blown for throws and have asked to see the odd match I've done, what I've seen at the match is completely different to when I watched the slow mo.

They ended up as proper passes!

Like I said I'd love to see everyone of Lynch's passes, they all look like fouls

The way the rules are defined is correct - and in that case almost all of Limerick's (and many others tbf) handpasses are fouls.

There's no need for a slow motion.

If the ref in real time doesn't see a 'clear striking action' it's a foul.  The onus is on the player to make a clear striking action.  Which few of them currently do.

This is like the black card debate all over again.  A clamour for rule changes when the rules (in this regard), if applied properly by referees, are perfectly fit for purpose.

imtommygunn

I agree with all of that but the horse appears to have kind of bolted on this one. How or when do you start enforcing this? Top level intercunty games would be nothing but fouls.

Saffrongael

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2024, 04:48:52 PMI agree with all of that but the horse appears to have kind of bolted on this one. How or when do you start enforcing this? Top level intercunty games would be nothing but fouls.

They would soon knock it on the head
Let no-one say the best hurlers belong to the past. They are with us now, and better yet to come

imtommygunn

Imagine the outrage. It'd be worse than the dublin donegal football match in 2011  ;D

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Saffrongael on June 12, 2024, 05:00:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2024, 04:48:52 PMI agree with all of that but the horse appears to have kind of bolted on this one. How or when do you start enforcing this? Top level intercunty games would be nothing but fouls.

They would soon knock it on the head

Like I said, I've watched it back over the years and while I didn't see clear hand pass when seeing it real time,  replayed backed it's a hand pass
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

burdizzo

As Franko said, if it's not obviously a clear striking action, then it's a foul.

Milltown Row2

Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand.

So are we to assume that if the referee is not in the correct position to see a hand pass, he should blow his whistle?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea