Sinn Fein - Finished in the Republic

[his holiness nb]

"I don't doubt that most people in the South think a united Ireland would be nice, in the way a band new car or a bigger house or a Caribbean cruise would be nice, but it's not something they are that bothered about. As they see it, the whole thing is settled"

Thanks for telling me how we think Gweltyah!

I along with many dont see it as settled and want a united Ireland, but I didnt vote Sinn Fein.
But dont presume to tell me I am not that bothered and see it as settled.

[saffron sam2]

And as for the South, how ironic that Bertie should judge that his electoral prospects would be much more greatly enhanced by being photographed shaking Paisley's hand by the Boyne waters, than e.g. by shaking Adams's hand in somewhere like Bodenstown!

In a rush to score yet more cheap points, you demonstrate some difficulty in understanding the basic concept of democratic elections.  Why would anyone in their right mind think that their electoral prospects would be enhanced by being photographed shaking the hand of a rival party leader; the leader of a party that has made no secret of the fact that it is (was) targetting some of FF's existing seats.

Not ironic in the slighest, simply basic electioneering logic.

Wally.

[Evil Genius]

Why would anyone in their right mind think that their electoral prospects would be enhanced by being photographed shaking the hand of a rival party leader;

Why would the leader of a Nationalist party in the Republic of Ireland be photographed before an election shaking hands with a notorious Loyalist bigot and hate figure for Nationalists, either?

My point was that Bertie clearly judged that there was more electoral kudos to be gained by associating himself with the Northern Peace Process than by distancing himself from it.

His manner of doing so was carefully thought out i.e. not only did he avoid one of the most significant "players" in the process (Adams), but he publicly renounced the possibility of forming a coalition with SF, even though it was very unlikely he (Bertie) would gain an overall majority.

Of course Bertie and SF were competing for seats, but both parties are competing for "hearts and minds" and Bertie clearly judged that being seen by the electorate in Adam's company was potentially more damaging than being seen alongside Paisley.

What does that say about the people of the Republic and their view of Adams? Oh, I forgot, they've told us. In the election...

[lynchbhoy]

but he publicly renounced the possibility of forming a coalition with SF, .

feck it - I missed that. All I heard was Bertie doing his usual and verbally buttering up all sides just short of FG so that he could use them to vote for him if he so needed them.
Only person at the top level I heard strenuously deny that FF would have any pact with sf was  Brian Cowen. He is a man of seemingly straight morals - unlike bertie.
So not for the first time, I think its wishful thinking on your part...but dont let that get in the way of your fantasy world ! 




[/quote]
What does that say about the Republic's view of Adams? Oh, I forgot, they told him so. In the election...
[/quote]

how many votes did adams get in the election then?

[SammyG]

how many votes did adams get in the election then?

Not as many as he was hoping for.

[lynchbhoy]

how many votes did adams get in the election then?

Not as many as he was hoping for.

was he standing for any seats in the election?

[Main Street]

Of course Bertie and SF were competing for seats, but both parties are competing for "hearts and minds" and Bertie clearly judged that being seen by the electorate in Adam's company was potentially more damaging than being seen alongside Paisley.

You have answered your question but your interpretation is questionable.
FF do not welcome Sinn Fein in the south, not now, not in the past. Sinn fein votes eat into FF territory. It's a proven fact. Democracy is the politics of adversity.
Post election scenario whereby SF was the only possible option for coalition, who knows what sacrifices Bertie would have done to stabilise the nation.

It's not a negative that SF did not make progress, way too close to FF, too much focus on a shifting sands policy which aimed at getting FF votes. I'd want something different.

[saffron sam2]

Why would anyone in their right mind think that their electoral prospects would be enhanced by being photographed shaking the hand of a rival party leader;

Why would the leader of a Nationalist party in the Republic of Ireland be photographed before an election shaking hands with a notorious Loyalist bigot and hate figure for Nationalists, either?

My point was that Bertie clearly judged that there was more electoral kudos to be gained by associating himself with the Northern Peace Process than by distancing himself from it.

His manner of doing so was carefully thought out i.e. not only did he avoid one of the most significant "players" in the process (Adams), but he publicly renounced the possibility of forming a coalition with SF, even though it was very unlikely he (Bertie) would gain an overall majority.

Of course Bertie and SF were competing for seats, but both parties are competing for "hearts and minds" and Bertie clearly judged that being seen by the electorate in Adam's company was potentially more damaging than being seen alongside Paisley.

What does that say about the people of the Republic and their view of Adams? Oh, I forgot, they've told us. In the election...

And my point was that you are comparing apples with oranges.  If SF had not been standing in the Dail election Bertie would have been tripping over himself for photo opportunites with Adams.  The opposite would obviously have applied had the DUP stood in the Free State.

And yes, I know what would have happened if my auntie had balls.

[Evil Genius]

And my point was that you are comparing apples with oranges.

If Paisley is the orange (obviously), then presumably Adams is the apple. In which case I'd say he's a crab apple - small, green and very bitter...

[magickingdom]

what a lot of our unionist posters dont seem to get is that in the south people dont equate voting for sf with voting for a ui. i would love to see a ui yet i have never voted sf even though sf has a td in my constituency. last time i looked ff were also a republican party who believed in a ui.. (as are fg by the way)

[GweylTah]

Why would anyone in their right mind think that their electoral prospects would be enhanced by being photographed shaking the hand of a rival party leader;

Why would the leader of a Nationalist party in the Republic of Ireland be photographed before an election shaking hands with a notorious Loyalist bigot and hate figure for Nationalists, either?

My point was that Bertie clearly judged that there was more electoral kudos to be gained by associating himself with the Northern Peace Process than by distancing himself from it.

His manner of doing so was carefully thought out i.e. not only did he avoid one of the most significant "players" in the process (Adams), but he publicly renounced the possibility of forming a coalition with SF, even though it was very unlikely he (Bertie) would gain an overall majority.

Of course Bertie and SF were competing for seats, but both parties are competing for "hearts and minds" and Bertie clearly judged that being seen by the electorate in Adam's company was potentially more damaging than being seen alongside Paisley.

What does that say about the people of the Republic and their view of Adams? Oh, I forgot, they've told us. In the election...

How dare you presume to have an opinion about or say how you think those South of the border think - none of your business apparently.

[Yer Ma]

what a lot of our unionist posters dont seem to get is that in the south people dont equate voting for sf with voting for a ui. i would love to see a ui yet i have never voted sf even though sf has a td in my constituency. last time i looked ff were also a republican party who believed in a ui.. (as are fg by the way)

I suppose a good question is then what SF voters down south are voting for when they mark their preference - is it as a left wing party with socialist ideals?

[Hardy]

I think it's just that they reckon they're fellow Celtic supporters.

[his holiness nb]

How dare you presume to have an opinion about or say how you think those South of the border think - none of your business apparently.

No, I just found it odd, being from South of the Border, to read your post stating how I think, when it did not represent my thoughts, or the thoughts of huge numbers down here at all.

Nothing to do with "none of your business".
I have my own opinions on the North, but wouldnt be so arrogant to tell Northerners how they think! 

[Evil Genius]

what a lot of our unionist posters dont seem to get is that in the south people dont equate voting for sf with voting for a ui. i would love to see a ui yet i have never voted sf even though sf has a td in my constituency. last time i looked ff were also a republican party who believed in a ui.. (as are fg by the way)

Fair point, MK. Perhaps's SF's problem when electioneering in the South is, however, that they don't offer much more* than a UI to the electorate, either.

Of course, seeing as the SF leadership is mostly drawn from the same territory as (this Board's) Unionist posters, perhaps that's why they make the same mistake!


* - I daresay they've got some economic policies, too, if they can find the fag packet they wrote them down on. Then again, perhaps it's better if the electorate in the South don't get to see them...