Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[naka]

mc hugh who is on the ccc  would be obliged to excuse himself as has a conflict.

the argument is the process around why o neill was the only one picked up post the  referee report given that the video would show a lot more than him.
its all about how teh ccc came to the decision to pick one person.

[yellowcard]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

You do know that CCC consists of many people, but each review/decision is only carried out by a smaller group of people with no conflicts of interests?

The lack of knowledge on this thread is astonishing. A a stranger to our games would be led to believe that there are no rules or procedures at all.

It's not astonishing at all, I doubt if very many people are aware of the internal workings of the CCC. However there is a clear issue in terms of the independence if McHugh is involved in the decision making. Perhaps he is not and was not part of the smaller group making the decision as you suggest. In the absence of any kind of formal communication from the GAA on the matter though, I think people can be forgiven for speculating. The lack of transparency around the incident is causing a lot of this speculation. Nearly 2 weeks on and we still don't know what the original 5 players were issued with bans for or why other players escaped sanctions.

[twohands!!!]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

You do know that CCC consists of many people, but each review/decision is only carried out by a smaller group of people with no conflicts of interests?

The lack of knowledge on this thread is astonishing. A a stranger to our games would be led to believe that there are no rules or procedures at all.

A member of the Competitions Control Committee or Hearings Committee, who is a member of any Unit or has a role in relation to any Member, Team or Unit, involved in the proceedings, shall stand down from prosecuting or adjudicating the case

Page 141 of the rule-book.

There's no way in hell Martin McHugh was involved in any capacity. The rule about conflicts of interest has been in place for aeons.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/ppactrpwjcyjus1m6dj8.pdf

Also the current rules on video evidence.

(ii) The Hearings Committee shall attach to documentary evidence (including video evidence) such level of reliability as befits it in the circumstances of the Hearing;

(iii) Video evidence introduced by any party shall be admissible provided that:
(a) a copy has been furnished to all other parties within a reasonable period prior to the Hearing, and
(b) the Hearings Committee is satisfied that the video evidence is reliable and unedited;

[David McKeown]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Oneill still gave them more than enough to go on though... not as if mchugh has the final call but the evidence of a "strike" is there unfortunately for neutral fans.

Exactly. They didn't pull it out of thin air. It is cut & dried.

You may argue that they missed Donegal boys doing things that warrant suspension but Rian O'Neill is getting what he deserves for what he did.

It's far from cut and dried. We also don't know what he is been suspended for.

I have no issue if the players are getting suspended because their actions went further than merely the handbag stuff provided the following criteria are met. Firstly there is sufficient evidence that they went further and crucially they are charged with offences other than contributing to a melee. If both criteria are not met then I have an issue because one of two things have happened.

One either there's no consistency to the nebulous rule of contributing to a melee and a different standard is applied to players not only in different games but even in the same melees. No rule can sensibly exist with such inconsistent application.

Or two. The authorities know these players committed serious offences but don't have the evidence to prove it. As a result theyve ignored fundamental principles of fairness and natural justice to try and punish them regardless. That's an extreme injustice.

Of course it all loops back to. How 11 days after the incident we still don't know for certain what players are charged with is shambolic.  Particularly if we want to stop 'this sort of thing'.

[yellowcard]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Oneill still gave them more than enough to go on though... not as if mchugh has the final call but the evidence of a "strike" is there unfortunately for neutral fans.

Exactly. They didn't pull it out of thin air. It is cut & dried.

You may argue that they missed Donegal boys doing things that warrant suspension but Rian O'Neill is getting what he deserves for what he did.

It's far from cut and dried. We also don't know what he is been suspended for.

I have no issue if the players are getting suspended because their actions went further than merely the handbag stuff provided the following criteria are met. Firstly there is sufficient evidence that they went further and crucially they are charged with offences other than contributing to a melee. If both criteria are not met then I have an issue because one of two things have happened.

One either there's no consistency to the nebulous rule of contributing to a melee and a different standard is applied to players not only in different games but even in the same melees. No rule can sensibly exist with such inconsistent application.

Or two. The authorities know these players committed serious offences but don't have the evidence to prove it. As a result theyve ignored fundamental principles of fairness and natural justice to try and punish them regardless. That's an extreme injustice.

Of course it all loops back to. How 11 days after the incident we still don't know for certain what players are charged with is shambolic.  Particularly if we want to stop 'this sort of thing'.

Exactly right. The suspensions could be accepted if their rationale was being communicated and everybody could move forward safe in the knowledge of what type of offence warrants a suspension when these kind of skirmishes break out.

How do you define a melee and what defines 'contributing to a melee' and does this always constitute an automatic one match ban going forward? We are left dealing with shades of grey. If the same type of incident happens again will it be pot luck as to who is plucked out for suspension again depending on what angle the referee has at the time. If there is consistency across the board then I still mightn't agree with it but I can accept it.

When you look back on the infamous AI final footage from 1996 and how the referee administered the customary single red card to each side and compare it to this modern day piece of argy bargy, it just underlines the complete lunacy of these suspensions. 

[greatpoint]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

You do know that CCC consists of many people, but each review/decision is only carried out by a smaller group of people with no conflicts of interests?

The lack of knowledge on this thread is astonishing. A a stranger to our games would be led to believe that there are no rules or procedures at all.

This is the worst thread I've seen on here so far.

[rrhf]

Tyrone took their medicine any chance the Armagh lads might do the same. 
Riain O Neill needs to loose the Mc Gregor stuff. He is too good a footballer and one we want to see playing.   

[JoG2]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Didn't think this thread could get any drafter

[tonto1888]

Tyrone took their medicine any chance the Armagh lads might do the same. 
Riain O Neill needs to loose the Mc Gregor stuff. He is too good a footballer and one we want to see playing.

Tyrone ones still going on about stuff from years ago, nevermind from anything this year. When exactly did they take their medicine?

[tonto1888]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Didn't think this thread could get any drafter

You have to admit, if that's true, and it's a big if, it doesn't look well

[J70]

There are the committees (as of last year - apparently they're three year terms):

Central Competitions Control Committee
Chair: Derek Kent, Taghmon Camross (Wexford), Martin McHugh, CLG Cill Chartha (Donegal), John Halbert, Watergrasshill Hurling Club (Cork), Mary Judge, Caherlistrane GAA (Galway), Séamus Kenny, Simonstown Gaels (Meath).

Central Hearings Committee
Chair: Brian Rennick, Dunderry GAA Club (Meath), Aoife Farrelly, Trim GAA Club (Meath), Micheál Óg McMahon, An Bhoth (Monaghan), Denis Holmes, Oola GAA Club (Limerick), Tod O' Mahony, Kiltimagh GAA (Mayo), Gerry Hagan, Killoe Young Emmets (Longford), Seán Dunnion, Four Masters (Donegal), Gerry Larkin, Tynagh/Abbey-Duniry (Galway), Michael Wadding, Roanmore GAA (Waterford).

Central Appeals Committee
Chair: Matt Shaw, Clonkill GAA Club (Westmeath), Julie Galbraith, Buncrana GAA Club (Donegal), Neil Sheridan, Balla GAA Club (Mayo), Willie O' Connor, Terence O'Rahilly's Tralee (Kerry), Tom Farrell, Tang GAA Club (Westmeath), Eddie Hughes, Raonaithe na Croise (Armagh), Paul Foley, Patrickswell GAA Club (Limerick), Gerry Kavanagh, Stradbally GAA (Laois), Enda Tiernan, Cloone GAA Club (Leitrim).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/new-gaa-president-delivers-on-gender-promise-in-first-committees-1.4497536


If McHugh is capable of single-handedly railroading O'Neill in his role, I'm sure Eddie Hughes can get him off. Aren't they the same club?

[Throw ball]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Oneill still gave them more than enough to go on though... not as if mchugh has the final call but the evidence of a "strike" is there unfortunately for neutral fans.

Exactly. They didn't pull it out of thin air. It is cut & dried.

You may argue that they missed Donegal boys doing things that warrant suspension but Rian O'Neill is getting what he deserves for what he did.

It's far from cut and dried. We also don't know what he is been suspended for.

I have no issue if the players are getting suspended because their actions went further than merely the handbag stuff provided the following criteria are met. Firstly there is sufficient evidence that they went further and crucially they are charged with offences other than contributing to a melee. If both criteria are not met then I have an issue because one of two things have happened.

One either there's no consistency to the nebulous rule of contributing to a melee and a different standard is applied to players not only in different games but even in the same melees. No rule can sensibly exist with such inconsistent application.

Or two. The authorities know these players committed serious offences but don't have the evidence to prove it. As a result theyve ignored fundamental principles of fairness and natural justice to try and punish them regardless. That's an extreme injustice.

Of course it all loops back to. How 11 days after the incident we still don't know for certain what players are charged with is shambolic.  Particularly if we want to stop 'this sort of thing'.

I agree in particular that what Rian O'Neill did is not ' cut and dried'. If the referee had sent him off the video is unlikely to have cleared him but the pictures I saw do not prove conclusively that he punched anyone. I assume his argument will be that he was pushing an aggressor away ala Forker and Murphy discussed earlier.

It should also be noted that players are entitled to appeal. Conor McManus got his red overturned earlier in league.

[Armagh18]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Oneill still gave them more than enough to go on though... not as if mchugh has the final call but the evidence of a "strike" is there unfortunately for neutral fans.

Exactly. They didn't pull it out of thin air. It is cut & dried.

You may argue that they missed Donegal boys doing things that warrant suspension but Rian O'Neill is getting what he deserves for what he did.

It's far from cut and dried. We also don't know what he is been suspended for.

I have no issue if the players are getting suspended because their actions went further than merely the handbag stuff provided the following criteria are met. Firstly there is sufficient evidence that they went further and crucially they are charged with offences other than contributing to a melee. If both criteria are not met then I have an issue because one of two things have happened.

One either there's no consistency to the nebulous rule of contributing to a melee and a different standard is applied to players not only in different games but even in the same melees. No rule can sensibly exist with such inconsistent application.

Or two. The authorities know these players committed serious offences but don't have the evidence to prove it. As a result theyve ignored fundamental principles of fairness and natural justice to try and punish them regardless. That's an extreme injustice.

Of course it all loops back to. How 11 days after the incident we still don't know for certain what players are charged with is shambolic.  Particularly if we want to stop 'this sort of thing'.

I agree in particular that what Rian O'Neill did is not ' cut and dried'. If the referee had sent him off the video is unlikely to have cleared him but the pictures I saw do not prove conclusively that he punched anyone. I assume his argument will be that he was pushing an aggressor away ala Forker and Murphy discussed earlier.

It should also be noted that players are entitled to appeal. Conor McManus got his red overturned earlier in league.

McManus was cut  and and dried a clear punch to the stomach, no idea how he got off.

[JoG2]

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

You do know that CCC consists of many people, but each review/decision is only carried out by a smaller group of people with no conflicts of interests?

The lack of knowledge on this thread is astonishing. A a stranger to our games would be led to believe that there are no rules or procedures at all.

This is the worst thread I've seen on here so far.

It's so off the wall it's entertaining. The championship (off the pitch) this year should be one for the ages.

[Wildweasel74]

No talk of the actual game at all. All this Armagh self pity is , f**king pathetic. Expected better of a proud county. The amount of new hangers on from Armagh on the forum since Armagh started to do well again , to the fore. Bring bck Fearon, all is forgiven.