Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[seafoid]

It's not a peace deal. It's not even a deal.

It's a plan for capitulation to Russia. Now and in a few years when they move in to finish the job.

Ukraine won't accept it. Europe needs to really step up now.

It was negotiated between Russia and the US. Europe and Ukraine were excluded. There is no way Ukraine will give up the third of Donesk it controls. The deal is a recipe for instability. Let's see what Europe comes up with. The Russiam money held at Euroclear is €140 million. That would keep Ukraine fighting for 3 years.

[Look-Up!]

 It puts US and Europe on a direct collision course. For Europe there's two options. Appeasement and hope down the line with different administrations in either countries the harms can be undone somewhat and sense prevail. That's wishful thinking though and damage to Ukraine could be too great.
 Other option is to give US the two fingers and back Ukraine. Invest heavily in European military and make stronger partnerships with likes of UK, Australia, Japan and Canada. That also means attacking the US dollar and moving away from it. That brings the likes of India and China more into trade relationships too.

Two bad options but US are clearly not a reliable partner going forward and need bringing down a peg or 50.

[Rossfan]

Munich 1938 all over again 

[seafoid]

Munich 1938 all over again 

https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d

Ukraine's western allies have called for "additional work" on a US-Russia peace plan and for the EU and Nato to be given a say over its contents as they seek to delay the terms being forced on Kyiv. The 14 leaders, from countries that include European states plus Japan, Australia and Canada, said on Saturday that the "initial draft of the 28-point plan includes important elements that will be essential for a just and lasting peace", in a joint statement agreed at an emergency meeting in Johannesburg. "We believe therefore that the draft is a basis which will require additional work," the leaders said. "We reiterate that the implementation of elements relating to the European Union and relating to Nato would need the consent of EU and Nato members respectively."


https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d

US officials warned that there was little room to negotiate a plan described by European officials as a "capitulation" to Moscow. Separately, Rustem Umerov, secretary of Ukraine's national security and defence council, said that he was "beginning consultations between senior officials of Ukraine and the United States regarding possible parameters of a future peace agreement" in Switzerland. The meeting, he said on Telegram, marks "another stage of the dialogue that has been ongoing in recent days and is primarily intended to co-ordinate our vision of the next steps". UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer said that national security advisers from across European capitals were travelling to Geneva "to work further on the draft" alongside US and Ukrainian officials on Sunday. Starmer had "no plans to visit Washington" but said he was "expecting to talk to Trump in the coming days." European officials will demand that no limits are placed on Ukraine's military capability and that the US offers clear security guarantees as part of the peace agreement, according to people briefed on the plan.


https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d

Attempts to forge a joint stance in response have been spearheaded by German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, French President Emmanuel Macron and Starmer. The frantic diplomatic negotiations have been complicated by a desire not to directly criticise Trump, officials said. "We welcome the continued US efforts to bring peace to Ukraine," the leaders said. "We are ready to engage in order to ensure that a future peace is sustainable." "We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force. We are also concerned by the proposed limitations on Ukraine's armed forces, which would leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack." In addition to Merz, Macron and Starmer, the statement was signed by the leaders of Italy, Norway, Spain, the Netherlands, Finland, Ireland, Japan, Australia and Canada, and the presidents of the EU Council and European Commission. Speaking after the meeting, Merz told reporters: "Wars cannot be ended by great powers over the heads of the affected countries," adding that any solution must involve the consent of Ukraine and Europe

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/22/ukraine-russia-trump-war-latest-news/Donald Trump has signalled he is ready to make concessions to Ukraine after Sir Keir Starmer said America's peace deal risked leaving the country open to Russian attack.

On Saturday, the US president said his 28-point proposal, under which Ukraine would surrender key territory and cut the size of its army, was "not my final offer".

"We'd like to get to peace. It should've happened a long time ago... We're trying to get it ended. One way or the other we have to get it ended," he said.

Asked whether the plan, which was rejected by European leaders, was his final offer to end the war with Russia, he said: "No, not my final offer."

[Fogarty]

The pattern is for Trump to deliver for Putin and then the other western 'allies' have to try and talk him back out of it.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/a32aa172-cfb1-4929-9841-e3aa6ee8c67d

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio sought to distance the US from a 28 point peace plan aimed at ending the war in Ukraine on terms favourable to Russia, according to senators he spoke to on Saturday. "It is not our recommendation. It is not our peace plan," said Republican Senator Mike Rounds, who spoke to Rubio as the secretary of state prepared to travel to Geneva to meet senior European and Ukrainian officials to discuss the plan on Sunday. Rubio told senators that the Russians gave the plan to Trump's Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, which the US then relayed to the Ukrainians in its role as an intermediary.

[Rossfan]

The US gets dafter by the day!

[seafoid]

It reads like a Russia wish list. They get to consolidate the territory captured, plus some extra they haven't got. With the sanctions off they can rebuild their economy and with Ukraine's defence limited, they can launch a fresh assault in another few years.

    https://www.ft.com/content/a32aa172-cfb1-4929-9841-e3aa6ee8c67d

    Rubio told senators that the Russians gave the plan to Trump's Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, which the US then relayed to the Ukrainians in its role as an intermediary.

"It is essentially the wish list of the Russians," said Senator Angus King, an independent from Maine.

[Banks of the Bann]

The European counter-plan to the ridiculous Witkof-Dmitriev Pact.

https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1992659882164486339?s=46

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/883e5a47-430c-4fc2-85ee-cd6af9bb599d

After hours of painstaking talks that nearly fell apart before they started, the US and Ukrainian teams reached agreements on several issues but "placed in brackets" the most contentious points — including territorial issues and relations between Nato, Russia and the US — for Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy to decide. The Ukrainians said they "were not mandated" to make decisions on territory — particularly ceding land as the original draft plan suggested — which under their country's constitution would require a national referendum. The new draft, Kyslytsya said, bore little resemblance to the earlier leaked version of the peace proposal that had caused uproar in Kyiv. "Very few things are left from the original version," he said. "We developed a solid body of convergence, and a few things we can compromise on," he said. "The rest will need leadership decisions." Each side will now take the latest working drafts back to Washington and Kyiv to brief the presidents. The Trump administration was then expected to approach Moscow to seek to advance the talks, he said. Draft copies of the plan given to the heads of the US and Ukrainian delegations were the only texts to leave the room. Kyslytsya said all other copies were taken back at the conclusion of the meeting.