"Economic inactivity" in the north

[Armagh18]

Only fools and horses work.

If it's as good as you say, jack the job in tomorrow and join them.

What self respecting man could sit on his arse all day and live off benefits?

[johnnycool]

Only fools and horses work.

If it's as good as you say, jack the job in tomorrow and join them.

What self respecting man could sit on his arse all day and live off benefits?

One who realises that if he takes a minimum wage job on zero hours contracts that his kids won't get school meals.

[Kidder81]

Only fools and horses work.

If it's as good as you say, jack the job in tomorrow and join them.

What self respecting man could sit on his arse all day and live off benefits?

One who realises that if he takes a minimum wage job on zero hours contracts that his kids won't get school meals.

Depending on his circumstances, his children would still get FSM on Universal Credit. Universal Credit incentivises work more than any other previous benefit but most people commenting on it as if it's the devil don't understand it. It's not perfect by any means but it's no longer a case of if you work you don't get rent paid, FSM etc

[nrico2006]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

UK benefit levels are very low.
The UK also has a lot of prejudice against the poor. You can feel.it in England.
It's not as strong in Ireland.

I used to help out in a homeless shelter in London.. English service users woukd tell you that they were scum and that their parents were.  The Irish ones would talk about someone in the family who did well.

NI has the UK system.

I see enough people floating about who don't work and they seem to be doing ok as they are driving nice cars, have their iPhones, Sky subscription, go out at the weekends, go on holidays,  gym membership and can still pay for a pack of fags at over a tenner a packet. 

[BennyCake]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

UK benefit levels are very low.
The UK also has a lot of prejudice against the poor. You can feel.it in England.
It's not as strong in Ireland.

I used to help out in a homeless shelter in London.. English service users woukd tell you that they were scum and that their parents were.  The Irish ones would talk about someone in the family who did well.

NI has the UK system.

You can feel it on this thread!

The likes of Jeremy Kyle, Benefits Street shows, The Sun etc have helped vilify and degrade people who are single mothers, low income families or surviving on benefits. Yes there are some who play the system (and good luck to them for it), but a hell of a lot are in dire situations, and are certainly not living a lavish lifestyle!

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

UK benefit levels are very low.
The UK also has a lot of prejudice against the poor. You can feel.it in England.
It's not as strong in Ireland.

I used to help out in a homeless shelter in London.. English service users woukd tell you that they were scum and that their parents were.  The Irish ones would talk about someone in the family who did well.

NI has the UK system.

I still hear people talk about the son/daughter/granddaughter/grandson doing well, the first from their family who went to college and how they 'run' a shop or have their own business, that still happens, its the heartening to hear that.

The problem is the drugs and drink with the ones living in sheltered housing. Certainly in Belfast its the worst I've seen in many a year, I'm not working in Belfast for the past few months but for 5 years before that it was steadily getting worse, more brazen from the 'homeless' with the drinking city center and shooting up on corner streets. Whatever services look after that end of things really needs a looking after.

As for the ones 'sitting' on the dole and getting away with it, I've no time for them TBH, I don't feel its fair for me to pay tax (taxed a lot) for someone to go on holidays through benefits that he/she doesn't deserve.

As for generational unemployment and poorly educated children there are thousands of examples of kids not falling into that trap, gaining employment and doing well for themselves, I'm  very fortunate that my father had a huge work ethic that has rubbed off on all his kids, I know families of course that didn't have that and their paths are different.

In my day you were very lucky to walk into a job or an apprenticeship, today, and I for one know this well having worked third level education through apprenticeships, that a lot of kids are lazy good for nothing, take take take, waste of time.. of course there were some lads that got it, mainly country lads but the Belfast kids on the Falls and Shankill were the hardest to motivate

[brokencrossbar1]

MR2....I get what you're saying but you know yourself if you go up in pets of west Belfast and east Belfast the level of poverty and sense of desperation is palpable. You are lucky that you had a father who had a strong work ethic but how many of your peers had fathers who were alcoholics, members of paramilitary groups, abused, abusers, or all of the above. What f**king hope is there for their children, and then their children's children? 

We can sit in Ivory towers but we have absolutely no sense of what goes on. Like someone said above if people think it's such an easy life then go and live it.

[NAG1]

Bullshit lads, lets call it what it is and be realistic about.

We have all said that when there is a genuine need then that is what the benefits system is for.

This attitude of if someone is playing the system fair play to them, f**k that. We are paying for it, we are the ones working to pay tax for these generations of families to have the same or better standard of living simply because they choose not to work, not to contribute to our society, our schools, our facilities our infrastructure.

How in anyone's mind can that be 'awh fair play to them' they know how to work the system, no the attitude needs to change completely. The benefits system should be there to support people into work and not incentivise them sitting at home.

[Milltown Row2]

MR2....I get what you're saying but you know yourself if you go up in pets of west Belfast and east Belfast the level of poverty and sense of desperation is palpable. You are lucky that you had a father who had a strong work ethic but how many of your peers had fathers who were alcoholics, members of paramilitary groups, abused, abusers, or all of the above. What f**king hope is there for their children, and then their children's children? 

We can sit in Ivory towers but we have absolutely no sense of what goes on. Like someone said above if people think it's such an easy life then go and live it.

I know and I went to the local primary and secondary school, on the Falls, I know these families well, it's horrible, my beef isn't with them so much, its the very able and clever people who work the system to suit their lives, if they used half of their 'cleverness' in the working environment then we as a working nation would be in a better position.

In my old employment I did see it up close in these areas and very grateful to be in a good position financially to not have to worry about what my parents had to worry about or ones around me.

If there was a fairer way to give more to ones that need it and less to the ones that are taking the piss then that would be a great solution

[seafoid]

NI also has a lot of people suffering from PTSD as a result of the Troubles. There is no such thing as a free war.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Its undoubtedly linked to history and discrimination, no coincidence that most of the poorest areas are in Derry, Strabane and some parts of Belfast.
The troubles are over and a lot of the discrimination has been addressed(the west of the Bann issue needs addressed however) but the legacy of substance abuse etc is now into a third generation, we have for the first time families in which the grandparents and grandchildren use drugs. Very difficult to break that cycle- its an underclass, not a working class

[brokencrossbar1]

I have issues with anyone milking the system but the majority of people on benefits are not doing so and that's why the programs like Jeremy Kyle and the Benfits Cheat programs bust my balls. They have demonised a whole grouping.

Someone mentioned Travellers. In my experience they rarely sign on for benefits as that creates a record on the system for them and they don't like that. Settled Travellers would be different though but generally they work hard

[Armagh18]

I have issues with anyone milking the system but the majority of people on benefits are not doing so and that's why the programs like Jeremy Kyle and the Benfits Cheat programs bust my balls. They have demonised a whole grouping.

Someone mentioned Travellers. In my experience they rarely sign on for benefits as that creates a record on the system for them and they don't like that. Settled Travellers would be different though but generally they work hard

Probably everyones experiences are different but anyone I know claiming benefits could and should be working. I think the system should be weighted that people who take a shitty minimum wage job get the help out in terms of free school meals and stuff like that. No one should be getting more from benefits than someone who works.

As for travellers, don't think they're relevant because not too many would be claiming benefits like you say. Again personal experience only, plenty are decent people and work hard but plenty live up to the negative stereotypes as well.

[screenexile]

FFS lads there's more outrage here about families getting an extra £250 a month than the Tories giving your tax money to their mates or the likes of FB/GOOGLE/AMAZON dodging tax like it's only for fools to pay!

It's like Boris telling us Climate change is our fault for rinsing our dishes before we put them in the dishwasher when BP and Shell can do whatever they like and get incentivised for it!!

[seafoid]

NI doesn't have a proper economic model . Economic activity is insufficient to pay the bills.  That's why the funding from London is so significant. An awful lot of talent is either wasted or emigrates.
This is another problem with being part of the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlGmYetiCjA