Free Staters and their hypocrisy on their violent, bloody past

[seafoid]

A recap of some of today's contributions.

Seafoid thinks the Old IRA murdering people was fine because the people backed their murderous campaign
Rossfan thinks sectarian murders down in Cork was justifiable because it was the Old IIRA who commited them.
Smelmoth has spent the day trying to spam up a thread with anything but the central subject.
Clonadmad's mother allowed him skip school today.

You don't need to kill as many people, Angelo.
It's a lot harder to win a war starting from a base of 20%
That was the PIRAs problem. That and the power of the British Army.
That's why it took so long to get to stalemate.

[Angelo]

A recap of some of today's contributions.

Seafoid thinks the Old IRA murdering people was fine because the people backed their murderous campaign
Rossfan thinks sectarian murders down in Cork was justifiable because it was the Old IIRA who commited them.
Smelmoth has spent the day trying to spam up a thread with anything but the central subject.
Clonadmad's mother allowed him skip school today.

You don't need to kill as many people, Angelo.
It's a lot harder to win a war starting from a base of 20%
That was the PIRAs problem. That and the power of the British Army.
That's why it took so long to get to stalemate.

I just found it an odd justification that killing people is ok if you have support to do so.

Your logic would justify what the Israelis are doing at present.

[smelmoth]

Seems a raw nerve has been struck with a few posters.

A lot of them are willing to run their mouths off but can't address the subject matter of the topic.

Now I wonder why that would be.

Having a bad day Champion?

Don't know what you are talking about. You would have to admit that I have engaged meaningfully in the subject. Any thoughts on my view that everyone has a range of views on these things? Presumably you also have a range of views? Do you for example have a single rationale that explains/justifies/rationalises say all of the modern IRA's activities?

You're trying hard to change the narrative of this thread.

It's about free state hypocrisy on their own bloody past. Seems you are intent on changing the discussion to anything but.

Strange

I'm sticking strictly to the thread. You claim there is hypocrisy. What is the hypocrisy? People are free to criticise or not criticise their bloody past. You are trying to expose a double standard between one bloody past and another bloody past without actually discussing the second of those 2 histories. Truly strange.

I have given you a context in which people will have inconsistent views on the activities of 1 group in 1 conflict. How can you surprise that people might have than one view over multiple conflicts??

Unless you are going to tell me that you have a single view on all the PIRA activities in the troubles? That would be interesting. But my case is you won't answer the question.

[smelmoth]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Interesting numbers. Both them. Source?

[seafoid]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Interesting numbers. Both them. Source?

SF had a landslide in the 1918 election.  Catholics in S. Ireland were at least 80% and strongly nationalist
In NI in the late 60s the catholic population was max 40% and taking half as supporting the armed struggle would be generous. 


There's a parallel with the SNP in Scotland now. They don't have enough of a majority to definitely win an independence vote. They would need to be at 70% or more for that,
In NI the population now  is split 50/50.

[dublin7]

Clearly people in the south/free staters don't understand what the IRA and their 25 odd year bombings campaign/freedom struggle was all about. They were busy bringing terror, pain and suffering to the people of the UK detonating home made explosive devices and people like us are showing them no respect. Just think about that. All those innocent people hurt, maimed or killed over two decades.....

So what it their campaign was a failure, has not brought a united Ireland any closer and only succeeded in inflicting pain and suffering on to so many families. When IRA volunteers were planting bombs in non military civilian areas like Canary Wharf and Warrington they were doing it for Irish freedom and we should all remember these brave freedom fighters.

I wonder in 100 years time will people in the south/free staters look back on our noble IRA freedom fighters from the 70s to the 90s and show them the respect we apparently don't show them......

[Snapchap]

Seafoid changing the goalposts for a second time today
out of a sheer desperation to convince himself he isn't a complete hypocrite and pulling stats out of thin air to help him out.

The Easter Rising was deeply unpopular when it happened. Were Clarke, Connolly et al a bunch of terrorist psychopaths?

[Snapchap]

Clearly people in the south/free staters don't understand what the IRA and their 25 odd year bombings campaign/freedom struggle was all about. They were busy bringing terror, pain and suffering to the people of the UK detonating home made explosive devices and people like us are showing them no respect. Just think about that. All those innocent people hurt, maimed or killed over two decades.....

So what it their campaign was a failure, has not brought a united Ireland any closer and only succeeded in inflicting pain and suffering on to so many families. When IRA volunteers were planting bombs in non military civilian areas like Canary Wharf and Warrington they were doing it for Irish freedom and we should all remember these brave freedom fighters.

I wonder in 100 years time will people in the south/free staters look back on our noble IRA freedom fighters from the 70s to the 90s and show them the respect we apparently don't show them......

Well given that the Old IRA killed at least the same, and probably a higher, proportion of civilians than the PIRA did, one can only hope you regard them as terrorist murderers too?

[Itchy]

Clearly people in the south/free staters don't understand what the IRA and their 25 odd year bombings campaign/freedom struggle was all about. They were busy bringing terror, pain and suffering to the people of the UK detonating home made explosive devices and people like us are showing them no respect. Just think about that. All those innocent people hurt, maimed or killed over two decades.....

So what it their campaign was a failure, has not brought a united Ireland any closer and only succeeded in inflicting pain and suffering on to so many families. When IRA volunteers were planting bombs in non military civilian areas like Canary Wharf and Warrington they were doing it for Irish freedom and we should all remember these brave freedom fighters.

I wonder in 100 years time will people in the south/free staters look back on our noble IRA freedom fighters from the 70s to the 90s and show them the respect we apparently don't show them......

You know nothing John Snow

[Itchy]

Seafood writes lovely long prose, the main purpose of which is to make himself look clever. But if you strip it back its clear he hasn't a f**king notion about the conflict in the 6 counties and I'd hazard a guess he wasn't even slightly touched by that conflict. For me there is little or no difference between old ira and provos, both had a legitimate case to bear arms. Within each campaign were unjustifiable actions which cannot be supported or celebrated.

[Rossfan]

What was the legitimate case for the Provos bearing arms in the 26?
And then using them to murder Gardai, Pte.Kelly, Prison Officer Stack, a Protestant Senator, Tom Oliver, bank robbing, kidnapping etc etc.
What ever happened to Army Order 8?

[Snapchap]

Why do you only want to talk about PIRA's innocent victims?

[clonadmad]

The Indo thread has gone off on a tangent.

The usual anti-SF trolls have tried to turn it into a Provo bashing thread but without addressing their hypocrisy on how they continue to ignore the barbaric, heinous and sectarian attacks the Old IRA committed in their fight for freedom and subsequent betrayal of the past.

Now we've seen the same guys in action - Seafoid, Mouview, Hound, Rossfan all jumping in with revisionism, all attacking the PIRA and The Troubles. All attempting to turn a thread on the bias and toxic nature of the Independent newspaper into a SF/PIRA bashing exercise. In the interest of balance it's important we flesh out their position on violent means to an end in terms with politics.

I don't expect any of these guys to participate in this thread as their sanctimony is hollow. They don't want to address the fact that the soapbox they use to show us how much morally superior than us "nordies" is hollow.

I think some of the comments today have been utterly disgraceful. I know I might piss an awful lot of some of you on here but surely you can recognise and appreciate the fact I am 100% right to call out these sad little people and their bigotry.

Congratulations and well done to all the contributors on here from the Republic of Ireland who are continuing to rile up this British subject with historical accuracy.

We live in a modern secular proud European country thanks to the achievements of the likes of Tom Barry and Dan Breen in driving the British Out

The Fact that our loser northern brethren couldn't drive the British out of an acre of ground in the 6 north eastern counties is a reflection on them as opposed to the south abandoning them which we often hear them crying about.

They made a slightly greater attempt at brits out during the troubles

Maybe it might have succeeded if a large portion of them were so morally weak that they had to inform on each other to the British

And they also lost that "war"

With them reduced to  enforcing British rule on a part of this island for the past  25 years

Is this satire or are you a total arsehole?

Armagh is still part of the Uk

You will get up to tomorrow and spend money with the queens face on it

A daily reminder that the Provos at any point couldn't even free the square in crossmaglen

What did the Provos actually achieve?

The north is still part of the UK and their political wing sit in a Mickey Mouse parliament that is answerable to London

So much for the dream of a 32 county socialist republic

[Rossfan]

Why do you only want to talk about PIRA's innocent victims?

Because some people here think the PIRA could do no wrong.

[Armagh18]

The Indo thread has gone off on a tangent.

The usual anti-SF trolls have tried to turn it into a Provo bashing thread but without addressing their hypocrisy on how they continue to ignore the barbaric, heinous and sectarian attacks the Old IRA committed in their fight for freedom and subsequent betrayal of the past.

Now we've seen the same guys in action - Seafoid, Mouview, Hound, Rossfan all jumping in with revisionism, all attacking the PIRA and The Troubles. All attempting to turn a thread on the bias and toxic nature of the Independent newspaper into a SF/PIRA bashing exercise. In the interest of balance it's important we flesh out their position on violent means to an end in terms with politics.

I don't expect any of these guys to participate in this thread as their sanctimony is hollow. They don't want to address the fact that the soapbox they use to show us how much morally superior than us "nordies" is hollow.

I think some of the comments today have been utterly disgraceful. I know I might piss an awful lot of some of you on here but surely you can recognise and appreciate the fact I am 100% right to call out these sad little people and their bigotry.

Congratulations and well done to all the contributors on here from the Republic of Ireland who are continuing to rile up this British subject with historical accuracy.

We live in a modern secular proud European country thanks to the achievements of the likes of Tom Barry and Dan Breen in driving the British Out

The Fact that our loser northern brethren couldn't drive the British out of an acre of ground in the 6 north eastern counties is a reflection on them as opposed to the south abandoning them which we often hear them crying about.

They made a slightly greater attempt at brits out during the troubles

Maybe it might have succeeded if a large portion of them were so morally weak that they had to inform on each other to the British

And they also lost that "war"

With them reduced to  enforcing British rule on a part of this island for the past  25 years

Is this satire or are you a total arsehole?

Armagh is still part of the Uk

You will get up to tomorrow and spend money with the queens face on it

A daily reminder that the Provos at any point couldn't even free the square in crossmaglen

What did the Provos actually achieve?

The north is still part of the UK and their political wing sit in a Mickey Mouse parliament that is answerable to London

So much for the dream of a 32 county socialist republic

Arlene has too much time on her hands now shes stepped down.