Congress

[thewobbler]

Championships are about finding the best team not "shock championship winners".
Was Armagh 2024 not shock enough?

Honestly I don't think Championship should be about making opportunities again and again to ensure that the most talented team wins out.

We have an extremely uneven and lopsided eligibility criteria for Gaelic Games. At the tip of the scale there are likely clubs in Dublin with more adult players registered, than the whole of County Leitrim. But everywhere on the scale is anomalies.

Take your own county. Based on raw eligibility numbers - as the 25th most populous county in Ireland - statistically speaking they should stand no chance of winning an All Ireland.

But when a competition format ensures that bigger counties can and will take each other out at early stages, it opens the door for the likes of Roscommon, Cavan, Westmeath, Laois to make a bit of hay, and to take their chances on the day when they meet the one or two big guns that get in their way. Most importantly, such a format gives players hope, and encourages a concerted buy-in when the draw pits big counties against each other in knockout games.

This back door system though - based on watching the muck pile that is the Down SFC for the past decade that uses this system - has the exact opposite effect. And that's how it'll pan out for Roscommon. Unless there's an extremely favourable draw - which does happen every handful of seasons - their goose is cooked. Because if the likes of Galway, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin are not required to slay each other, there's no way Ros are going to slay them all. That's not being rude. That's just how numbers work.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

It doesn't bring jeopardy. It gives the best team(s) a second chance, and destroys pretty much any chance of a shock championship winner.

That's the way it's been this 25 years. And it's worked well. The backdoor system was always great.

[thewobbler]

It doesn't bring jeopardy. It gives the best team(s) a second chance, and destroys pretty much any chance of a shock championship winner.

That's the way it's been this 25 years. And it's worked well. The backdoor system was always great.

Agreed but I find that this system is a little more lopsided again. The underdog rarely gets a reward for winning, which inherently makes it harder for the underdog to give a damn.

[Armagh18]

Championships are about finding the best team not "shock championship winners".
Was Armagh 2024 not shock enough?

Honestly I don't think Championship should be about making opportunities again and again to ensure that the most talented team wins out.

We have an extremely uneven and lopsided eligibility criteria for Gaelic Games. At the tip of the scale there are likely clubs in Dublin with more adult players registered, than the whole of County Leitrim. But everywhere on the scale is anomalies.

Take your own county. Based on raw eligibility numbers - as the 25th most populous county in Ireland - statistically speaking they should stand no chance of winning an All Ireland.

But when a competition format ensures that bigger counties can and will take each other out at early stages, it opens the door for the likes of Roscommon, Cavan, Westmeath, Laois to make a bit of hay, and to take their chances on the day when they meet the one or two big guns that get in their way. Most importantly, such a format gives players hope, and encourages a concerted buy-in when the draw pits big counties against each other in knockout games.

This back door system though - based on watching the muck pile that is the Down SFC for the past decade that uses this system - has the exact opposite effect. And that's how it'll pan out for Roscommon. Unless there's an extremely favourable draw - which does happen every handful of seasons - their goose is cooked. Because if the likes of Galway, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin are not required to slay each other, there's no way Ros are going to slay them all. That's not being rude. That's just how numbers work.

Down is different though as every club in Down either don't have the balls or the players or both to lay a hand on Kilcoo.

[AustinPowers]

Championships are about finding the best team not "shock championship winners".
Was Armagh 2024 not shock enough?

Are  you're saying it's good to have shock/surprise AI winners , or  you  want the Dublin's/Kerry's winning every year?

[thewobbler]

Armagh18 - your point is highly valid re Kilcoo. My point in return though is that when teams don't believe they can win a championship, then it's no longer feels like championship, it's a bore fest of teams whimpering to the end of their season; and over time the league becomes their priority. A format that enables this mindset is not progress.

[Armagh18]

Armagh18 - your point is highly valid re Kilcoo. My point in return though is that when teams don't believe they can win a championship, then it's no longer feels like championship, it's a bore fest of teams whimpering to the end of their season; and over time the league becomes their priority. A format that enables this mindset is not progress.

I can't see that happening at intercounty level (bar that monster of a Dublin team) There's 8 teams in division 1 who could go on a run and win Sam without it being a huge shock this year (bar Mayo obviously) plus the Rossies who could take a scalp on their day and maybe one or 2 more developing in division 2.

I love straight knock out, but at least the groups and to a lesser extent this system give extra games to teams to allow them to develop by exposing them to the best teams in proper competitive football.

[Blowitupref]

From the Irish News.

Armagh boss Kieran McGeeney has labelled the latest change to the All-Ireland SFC structure as "a joke" and "embarrassing", after it was voted through at Congress earlier on Saturday.

"It's a joke... it's a joke. The voted this system that we're going back to out two years ago – it's a joke.
"I think it's an embarrassment. It's a money-saving exercise, bean counters, less games, less travelling, all that sort of stuff, and they're going to try and push it out to August. Wait 'til you see, that's what they'll do.
"I think, just leave it alone. Leave the bloody thing alone - it was the best format ever. Going on about jeopardy, you talk to any manager or any player. The Super 16s? You were worried about every score, never mind every game.
"Every point was important because right up until the last game you could be sitting top, you lose the last game you could be down to third. It's nonsense."


"But what are they looking for?" asked McGeeney.
"We're watching other sports grow and our thing is about control and containment. If you want a knockout Championship, then play a knockout Championship. You can still lose a game and do it.
"What is the thing that they want? Do they even know what they want themselves? It doesn't seem to me. Six times in nine years? It's embarrassing.
"To vote something out after two years back not something that you two years ago. And they go on about some slight difference..."

[Rossfan]

Dear Wobbler
It's called the CHAMPIONSHIP
It's about finding the CHAMPIONS

In other words the best team.

If you want a social welfare competition go ahead and call it whatever....
But not CHAMPIONSHIP.

We had a system that gave every team 3 chances at reaching the Quarter Finals but it wasn't brutal enough for the Uachtarán as there wasn't enough JEOPARDY.
92% of delegates agreed with him.

Now you're average team will have 7 games at the worst time of year, 1 game in April, 1 on May and 1 early June.
More of those 10 games should be in April, May and June.

[thewobbler]

Dear Wobbler
It's called the CHAMPIONSHIP
It's about finding the CHAMPIONS

In other words the best team.

If you want a social welfare competition go ahead and call it whatever....
But not CHAMPIONSHIP.

We had a system that gave every team 3 chances at reaching the Quarter Finals but it wasn't brutal enough for the Uachtarán as there wasn't enough JEOPARDY.
92% of delegates agreed with him.

Now you're average team will have 7 games at the worst time of year, 1 game in April, 1 on May and 1 early June.
More of those 10 games should be in April, May and June.

Every competitive team sport in the world has a championship (most important competition).

After decades of trials and experiments, the format is now always one of:

League, or
Straight knockout, or
Mini league, followed by straight knockout.

What I'm saying is no other sport uses a back door system.

Please don't try to tell me that the GAA has discovered a secret sauce that nobody else knows about.

——

By the way, the GAA had a decade long experiment, with pretty conclusive data, that they could have referred to before proposing this motion. It's called the Down football championship. And it's a complete farce of a competition, with dwindling interest year on year.

[David McKeown]

Championships are about finding the best team not "shock championship winners".
Was Armagh 2024 not shock enough?

Were Armagh a shock winner?

[Rossfan]

A surprise one anyway

[Rossfan]

Wobbler,
I'd always be wary when I see a 92% majority with little or no discussion.

[Cunny Funt]

In 2017 Congress The "Super 8" motion passed with 76% voting in favour of the move. (that format lasted two years)

In 2022 Congress the new All-Ireland football championship format gets 95% backing (this summer will be the last year of it)

On we go into 2026 with another new format.

[twohands!!!]

In 2017 Congress The "Super 8" motion passed with 76% voting in favour of the move. (that format lasted two years)

In 2022 Congress the new All-Ireland football championship format gets 95% backing (this summer will be the last year of it)

On we go into 2026 with another new format.

The elephant in the room is the voting power of the provincial councils combined with their insistence on preserving the provincal championships as much as possible.

The football championship is going to continue with a suboptimal championship for as long as the provincial councils continue to exist never mind how much of a waste of time and effort and duplication of work and inefficiency they are responsible for.