Russophobia

[Eamonnca1]

It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"

[seafoid]

I have 'The Last Empire' The Final days of the Soviet Union by Serhii Plokhy. I've only really ready the foreword and it's just a roll call of nefarious activities Russia have recently been up to in Checnya,  Georgia & Ukraine.

Probably a Lundy tho.

Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder is very good

[sid waddell]

It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"

I don't think anybody who knows the first thing about World War II finds it difficult to accept the Soviets played a huge part in defeating the Nazis, it's a simple fact

The only people who deny that are those irretrievably down the rabbit hole of American or British nationalism

The reason why Hitler was surprised at the Brits declaring war on the Nazis was that Hitler was a fool

As was Stalin, who was caught completely unaware when Hitler ended their shameful collaboration in June 1941

For all their bravado, these fellas had all the smarts of somebody who gives their bank details to a Nigerian prince

[Rossfan]

Hitler thought the Brits and French would repeat their roll over on Czechoslovakia and let him belt away in Poland.

[seafoid]

Hitler wanted to break away from Western capitalism by turning the Soviet Union into a source of oil and food for Germany.

[five points]

"The Future Is History" by Masha Gessen and "The Road To Unfreedom" by Timothy Snyder are well worth reading, read both in the last 18 months

Peter Pomerantsev's stuff is supposed to be very good as well, I have "Nothing Is True And Everything Is Possible" but haven't got around to reading it yet

There's a fierce air of repressed homosexuality about Putinism and contemporary Russian nationalism

It's very, very good.

[seafoid]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44993571

[Angelo]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44993571

Do you think screws torturing prisoners is something unique to Russia? Or do you think it happens in the Western World.

Plenty of Republican prisoners would vouch for the torture they were subjected to at Portlaoise prison during The Troubles. Did you beloved Free State do anything on the matter?

[GetOverTheBar]

Hitler thought the Brits and French would repeat their roll over on Czechoslovakia and let him belt away in Poland.

I think it was Goering who said in his trial after the war, why would Germany not go after Poland since they got the Czech Republic so easy, it only encouraged Hitler. Who knows what would have been if a different course was taken?

[GetOverTheBar]

It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"

I don't think anybody who knows the first thing about World War II finds it difficult to accept the Soviets played a huge part in defeating the Nazis, it's a simple fact

The only people who deny that are those irretrievably down the rabbit hole of American or British nationalism

The reason why Hitler was surprised at the Brits declaring war on the Nazis was that Hitler was a fool

As was Stalin, who was caught completely unaware when Hitler ended their shameful collaboration in June 1941

For all their bravado, these fellas had all the smarts of somebody who gives their bank details to a Nigerian prince

Not sure about that Sid, it's strange to say it, but I don't think by any means Hitler was a fool. He was planning for war from before he took power.

He was brave, daring.....(along with all the rest...) but foolish? History would have told him going East only ends one way, but he had Western Europe beaten by 1940. What else could be do only keep the foot on the gas? Medically he was not Hitler by the end of the war for I suppose various reasons. Certainly not the Hitler of the early to mid 30s.

As for Stalin....he got lucky, locked himself away for days when the inevitable happened. Only a inexhaustible human quicksand saved him and Russia from falling.

[sid waddell]

So Hitler was astonished when the Brits declared war

He couldn't understand the consequences of invading the Soviet Union

And Stalin couldn't believe that Hitler would invade

And you say these people weren't fools

And Hitler was "brave, daring" 

Jaysus 

[GetOverTheBar]

Was more for the sake of conversation, I wasn't arguing with you.

They can't have been that stupid if they all rose to power and managed to irreversibly change the course of history.

Stalin especially was seen as a complete outsider once Lenin had the first of his series of strokes....but it was him who out manoeuvred what history told us was the brilliant strategist, Leon Trotsky. 

[sid waddell]

The biggest fools are confident fools, convinced of their own infallibility

[johnnycool]

The biggest fools are confident fools, convinced of their own infallibility

The god complex.

Trump had a touch of it, along with fuckwittery.

[bennydorano]

Hitler was guilty of many things, including foolishness, but to label him a fool is so simplistic it's comical. Seems to me the specific references here would make him guilty of hubris, egotism, failed political gambits, not being a fool. A fool does not manufacture one of the greatest Machiavellian rises to power ever.