Author Topic: Mother and Baby Home Report  (Read 3777 times)

From the Bunker

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2021, 10:10:11 PM »
The following were the reasons this happened:

A new Independent state.

A poor independent state.

A class system.

Majority of the population living in Poverty.

Majority of the population uneducated.

Catholic Clergy stepping in to help out the Government maintain structures in this poverty.

Catholic Church taking control of our Hospitals, our Schools, our dance halls, our society, our belief system, our morals.

They controlled everything. Anyone who would dare take them on was going to lose and lose big time.

Life in Ireland up to the 50's was pretty unstructured in Ireland. Kids (especially in rural parts) went sporadically to school. Most men worked as farmers, women stayed at home. Most were self sufficient and often living on the edge of poverty. People spent little or no money (because they earned little or no money). Immigration was rife.

I was told a story once of a Old female widow who ran a Pub in the 50's!  The Toilet facilities were primitive. In other words there were no Toilets. One day she was out the back sorting bottles and she seen a Priest having a Pee. The innocence of the woman was she could not believe that the Priest had a Penis! She thought in some magical way he was born without one?








Main Street

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2021, 10:28:58 PM »
What sort of society was it to produce such sadistic nuns?

The same sort of society that today tolerates Direct Provision.
And yet the society that tolerates Direct Provision or/and discrimates towards Travellers doesn't define that as being a serious part of the high idea of  what they think their society is about (compassionate, caring, 'christian' etc).  Somehow those dark aspects of society are wrapped up,  stored away and everybody else gets on with their happy Irish lives. Not too dissimilar to how irish society could have  tolerated the existance of those horrid incarcerations and the primitive religious /social prejudices that nurtured them.

weareros

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2021, 10:57:16 PM »
The following were the reasons this happened:

A new Independent state.

A poor independent state.

A class system.

Majority of the population living in Poverty.

Majority of the population uneducated.

Catholic Clergy stepping in to help out the Government maintain structures in this poverty.

Catholic Church taking control of our Hospitals, our Schools, our dance halls, our society, our belief system, our morals.

They controlled everything. Anyone who would dare take them on was going to lose and lose big time.

Life in Ireland up to the 50's was pretty unstructured in Ireland. Kids (especially in rural parts) went sporadically to school. Most men worked as farmers, women stayed at home. Most were self sufficient and often living on the edge of poverty. People spent little or no money (because they earned little or no money). Immigration was rife.

I was told a story once of a Old female widow who ran a Pub in the 50's!  The Toilet facilities were primitive. In other words there were no Toilets. One day she was out the back sorting bottles and she seen a Priest having a Pee. The innocence of the woman was she could not believe that the Priest had a Penis! She thought in some magical way he was born without one?

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Thereís a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didnít end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

restorepride

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2021, 11:02:08 PM »
The following were the reasons this happened:

A new Independent state.

A poor independent state.

A class system.

Majority of the population living in Poverty.

Majority of the population uneducated.

Catholic Clergy stepping in to help out the Government maintain structures in this poverty.

Catholic Church taking control of our Hospitals, our Schools, our dance halls, our society, our belief system, our morals.

They controlled everything. Anyone who would dare take them on was going to lose and lose big time.

Life in Ireland up to the 50's was pretty unstructured in Ireland. Kids (especially in rural parts) went sporadically to school. Most men worked as farmers, women stayed at home. Most were self sufficient and often living on the edge of poverty. People spent little or no money (because they earned little or no money). Immigration was rife.

I was told a story once of a Old female widow who ran a Pub in the 50's!  The Toilet facilities were primitive. In other words there were no Toilets. One day she was out the back sorting bottles and she seen a Priest having a Pee. The innocence of the woman was she could not believe that the Priest had a Penis! She thought in some magical way he was born without one?

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Thereís a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didnít end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.
Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please. 

whitey

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2021, 11:03:28 PM »
A cousin of mine got a girl ďin troubleĒ in the early-mid 80s (they couldnít even say the word pregnant)

When she announced the news at home (she was the youngest daughter of backward elderly parents) all hell broke loose. I believe she got kicked out of the house and was told that if my cousin of anyone belonging to him showed up at their door they should expect both barrels of the shotgun

The girls sister who was a nurse arranged for her to enter a home where she had the baby and he was put up for adoption

After his adoptive parents passed away he sought them out and they have had a reconciliation.

Thatís how fvcked up things were in the 80s

Now imagine what they were like in the 40s and 50s

J70

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2021, 11:11:25 PM »
My neighbours shut confined their pregnant, unmarried daughter to the house once she started to show.

Everyone knew anyway, even us kids!

And this was only the 80s as well.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2021, 11:24:00 PM »
I worked with a married couple years ago, both teachers and a fantastic pair youíd ever meet, both came to London and did their teacher training in London during the late 60ís, while not married but together they fell pregnant, the fear for them was that they would be looked upon back home has dirt!

They stayed in London longer during terms (though at that time they would have stayed all year) they gave the child up for adoption..

Came home couple years later got married, had 3 more kids and put it behind them, though never forgetting the girl they gave up..

30 years went by and someone got in touch with them, the child decided to find her parents, sheíd been brought up in Dublin, lived 120 miles down the road from them the whole time!

She told me that her heart was pounding and felt she was going to die when they met up in Dublin, There was tears and heartbreak, anger and regret. The fact that her parents ended up married and had a family caused resentment no doubt.

But 20 years on hey have an unbreakable bond.

This happened because of the times, the grandmother was falling ill and the daughter only had the courage near her mums death to actually tell her of the pregnancy in London and how they gave up her granddaughter.. her mum cried for days.

I remember the story so well and was absolutely gobsmacked that something like this actually happened. Horrendous how people felt that this was the best way out!

Society and religion at fault, while blame can be left fairly at the door of the Catholic Church for those convent places, society placed pressure on people to Ďdo the right thingí
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Gmac

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2021, 11:24:37 PM »
My neighbours shut confined their pregnant, unmarried daughter to the house once she started to show.

Everyone knew anyway, even us kids!

And this was only the 80s as well.
if Ireland has embraced the Protestant religion way back when it would have made Irish history a lot less painful these types of crimes would never have happened or clerical abuse , the country would probably never have been   partitioned and all the troubles and violence that brought with it .

Milltown Row2

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2021, 11:27:34 PM »
My neighbours shut confined their pregnant, unmarried daughter to the house once she started to show.

Everyone knew anyway, even us kids!

And this was only the 80s as well.
if Ireland has embraced the Protestant religion way back when it would have made Irish history a lot less painful these types of crimes would never have happened or clerical abuse , the country would probably never have been   partitioned and all the troubles and violence that brought with it .
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/sexual-abuse-cover-up-kincora-1941502-Feb2015/%3famp=1

There has been some
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

mrdeeds

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2021, 09:31:04 AM »
The Cavan orphanage fire was another tragedy in 1943. 35 children died because the nuns wouldn't let them leave the burning building as they didn't want them to be seen in their nightgowns.

6th sam

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2021, 09:33:10 AM »
In the midst of disgust we all feel, what I would like to see in response to these public enquiries is that the focus is on the victims.
With other abuse scandals and inquiries to date, there is quite rightly reflection and apology , but it appears to me that governments and institutions perpetuate difficulties for victims by delaying compensation or failing to show meaningful empathy and support for victims. Everybody appears to agree What happened  was inexcusable, and itís easy to condemn things that happened years ago with most of the perpetrators faceless and dead. However it appears to me that we continue to put victims through the wringer with prolonged enquiries, followed by hand wringing, but then further procrastination and delay, until
Victims are either frail elderly or dead. This is not unique to these church related scandals. Surely thereís a better way of giving victims quicker and more meaningful recognition, support and compensation.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 09:34:58 AM by 6th sam »

johnnycool

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2021, 09:43:19 AM »
In the midst of disgust we all feel, what I would like to see in response to these public enquiries is that the focus is on the victims.
With other abuse scandals and inquiries to date, there is quite rightly reflection and apology , but it appears to me that governments and institutions perpetuate difficulties for victims by delaying compensation or failing to show meaningful empathy and support for victims. Everybody appears to agree What happened  was inexcusable, and itís easy to condemn things that happened years ago with most of the perpetrators faceless and dead. However it appears to me that we continue to put victims through the wringer with prolonged enquiries, followed by hand wringing, but then further procrastination and delay, until
Victims are either frail elderly or dead. This is not unique to these church related scandals. Surely thereís a better way of giving victims quicker and more meaningful recognition, support and compensation.

Do you not think this is by design?

It didn't take anyone in the 21st century to realise this was wrong but the delays and procrastination is partly due to the fact that a lot of those responsible were still alive and those in power then hadn't the balls to face up to them. It's only when a lot of those involved have passed on that those in places of responsibility felt comfortable politically taking this on.

The ball-less wonders who fill positions of political power are still with us and Mr Martin is a prime example of this. He certainly would not have been so willing to read out the reports findings if he thought in any way there would have been a negative impact to his political career.
Some things never change.

6th sam

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2021, 09:53:34 AM »
In the midst of disgust we all feel, what I would like to see in response to these public enquiries is that the focus is on the victims.
With other abuse scandals and inquiries to date, there is quite rightly reflection and apology , but it appears to me that governments and institutions perpetuate difficulties for victims by delaying compensation or failing to show meaningful empathy and support for victims. Everybody appears to agree What happened  was inexcusable, and itís easy to condemn things that happened years ago with most of the perpetrators faceless and dead. However it appears to me that we continue to put victims through the wringer with prolonged enquiries, followed by hand wringing, but then further procrastination and delay, until
Victims are either frail elderly or dead. This is not unique to these church related scandals. Surely thereís a better way of giving victims quicker and more meaningful recognition, support and compensation.

Do you not think this is by design?

It didn't take anyone in the 21st century to realise this was wrong but the delays and procrastination is partly due to the fact that a lot of those responsible were still alive and those in power then hadn't the balls to face up to them. It's only when a lot of those involved have passed on that those in places of responsibility felt comfortable politically taking this on.

The ball-less wonders who fill positions of political power are still with us and Mr Martin is a prime example of this. He certainly would not have been so willing to read out the reports findings if he thought in any way there would have been a negative impact to his political career.
Some things never change.

These delays , make absolutely no sense if the focus is on victims, which it is supposed to be. The only people benefitting from the delays are those that should be making active compensation and meaningful support, and those in legal system , who are presumably being paid throughout ( not getting the boot into Soliciters etc, they are just going their job) . This delaying is so common , itís hard to believe itís not a tactic. This delay by contributing to the stress of victims is even more unacceptable because itís by current governments and institutions, as opposed to faceless figures from the past. Very very sad.

Snapchap

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2021, 09:56:29 AM »
Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Thereís a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didnít end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.
Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.
Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

whitey

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Re: Mother and Baby Home Report
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2021, 10:18:59 AM »
Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Thereís a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didnít end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.
Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.
Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?