Northern nationalists versus ?

[Milltown Row2]

I haven't dodged any question! I'm losing the will, they are voted in because there is no alternative that will stop SF from running the show, it's as simple as that. That's me answering that 4 times now...

It might not be the answer you want but it is, the PUP won't ever get the vote, until they have a unifying voice that'll get both sides of that working class unionist on board. Phew you are hard work lad!

Your missus must be tortured when asking what you want for dinner!

[Angelo]

I haven't dodged any question! I'm losing the will, they are voted in because there is no alternative that will stop SF from running the show, it's as simple as that. That's me answering that 4 times now...

It might not be the answer you want but it is, the PUP won't ever get the vote, until they have a unifying voice that'll get both sides of that working class unionist on board. Phew you are hard work lad!

Your missus must be tortured when asking what you want for dinner!

And how do you engage in a community who will vote against their own needs in order to further a sectarian agenda.

The DUP have absolutely no interest in working class protestants and their need and show quite open disregard for them, they those working class protestants further the sectarian agenda of the DUP.

So I'll ask you once again - how do you engage with a section of society like that where a Protestant ascendancy and sectarianism is their sole interest? A section of society who vote to oppress themselves so long as the Catholics get it worse?

Tell me how you engage with that.

[tonto1888]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

Why do we need a left wing party for unionism. What can't we have a left wing party that encompasses everyone

[Angelo]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

Why do we need a left wing party for unionism. What can't we have a left wing party that encompasses everyone

Left wing parties fly in the face of unionism as unionism is all about a protestant ascendacny.

Unionists would only vote for a deeply sectarian left wing party.

And that's the thing the lads from the free state don't understand, the mindset of unionism means it simply cannot be engaged with, it's a section of society that will continually cut its nose off to spite its face.

[tonto1888]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

Definitely not, loyalist working class areas are shamelessly right-wing.

They can't all be can they?

[Angelo]

They do nothing at all for working class Protestants. Look at east Belfast and how deprived massive parts of it are. Sure the other year they tried to claim how great it was there because they claimed the titanic museum as a massive source of revenue for east Belfast. Charlatans.

Not being sf seems to be all they need to do. Stir it up come election time.

That's not high on their lists, staying in the union is what matters, otherwise they'd vote towards a moderate party...

Places in working class areas are dealing with paramilitary organisations, this stops inward investments, what prospective businesses want pay protection money, what companies wants to build houses that they'll end up paying a percentage to paramilitaries.

This alone is one reason why the likes of the PUP won't get votes as they pander to these gangs

Get rid of the paramilitaries and things will change

And the DUP don't pander to these gangs?

Dee Stitt??

You talk some amount of absolute bollocks.

SF talked to paramilitaries every flipping day ! Can you tell me the difference?

What are you bringing in SF for here?

You are saying that working class loyalists won't vote for the PUP because they are connected with criminal gangs.

We have all seen the cosy relationships leading politicians from DUP/UUP have had with leading loyalist paramilitaries in the past.

You've completely contradicted yourself AGAIN.

[tonto1888]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

Why do we need a left wing party for unionism. What can't we have a left wing party that encompasses everyone

Left wing parties fly in the face of unionism as unionism is all about a protestant ascendacny.

Unionists would only vote for a deeply sectarian left wing party.

And that's the thing the lads from the free state don't understand, the mindset of unionism means it simply cannot be engaged with, it's a section of society that will continually cut its nose off to spite its face.

There's bound to be Working class left wing unionists and loyalists and that's who you start with. They can't all be right wing nuts. I refuse to believe that

[Milltown Row2]

I haven't dodged any question! I'm losing the will, they are voted in because there is no alternative that will stop SF from running the show, it's as simple as that. That's me answering that 4 times now...

It might not be the answer you want but it is, the PUP won't ever get the vote, until they have a unifying voice that'll get both sides of that working class unionist on board. Phew you are hard work lad!

Your missus must be tortured when asking what you want for dinner!

And how do you engage in a community who will vote against their own needs in order to further a sectarian agenda.

The DUP have absolutely no interest in working class protestants and their need and show quite open disregard for them, they those working class protestants further the sectarian agenda of the DUP.

So I'll ask you once again - how do you engage with a section of society like that where a Protestant ascendancy and sectarianism is their sole interest? A section of society who vote to oppress themselves so long as the Catholics get it worse?

Tell me how you engage with that.

Here's the thing Angelo I don't have engage with it, neither do you, I've answered and given you the reasons, if you don't accept those then you need to engage with someone from that area, of course you won't as you (based on the rubbish you've spewed so far) haven't the capacity to understand what way a unionist/loyalist thinks

[Angelo]

I haven't dodged any question! I'm losing the will, they are voted in because there is no alternative that will stop SF from running the show, it's as simple as that. That's me answering that 4 times now...

It might not be the answer you want but it is, the PUP won't ever get the vote, until they have a unifying voice that'll get both sides of that working class unionist on board. Phew you are hard work lad!

Your missus must be tortured when asking what you want for dinner!

And how do you engage in a community who will vote against their own needs in order to further a sectarian agenda.

The DUP have absolutely no interest in working class protestants and their need and show quite open disregard for them, they those working class protestants further the sectarian agenda of the DUP.

So I'll ask you once again - how do you engage with a section of society like that where a Protestant ascendancy and sectarianism is their sole interest? A section of society who vote to oppress themselves so long as the Catholics get it worse?

Tell me how you engage with that.

Here's the thing Angelo I don't have engage with it, neither do you, I've answered and given you the reasons, if you don't accept those then you need to engage with someone from that area, of course you won't as you (based on the rubbish you've spewed so far) haven't the capacity to understand what way a unionist/loyalist thinks

So you're contending something and when pressed on it you can't back up your contention?

The floor was yours but you shit it when you the opportunity to articulate your point AGAIN.

Pattern emerging here.

[dublin7]

DUP don't like SF and SF don't the DUP. SF play the Republican card to get votes and the DUP play the unionist card. Until a viable option to either party becomes a realistic voting option you'll have a government made up of SF/DUP. What you get then is the current stormont executive were both parties in gov disagree on practically everything and nothing gets done or achieves

[Angelo]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

Why do we need a left wing party for unionism. What can't we have a left wing party that encompasses everyone

Left wing parties fly in the face of unionism as unionism is all about a protestant ascendacny.

Unionists would only vote for a deeply sectarian left wing party.

And that's the thing the lads from the free state don't understand, the mindset of unionism means it simply cannot be engaged with, it's a section of society that will continually cut its nose off to spite its face.

There's bound to be Working class left wing unionists and loyalists and that's who you start with. They can't all be right wing nuts. I refuse to believe that

My initial point here before Milltown made a clown of himself arguing something he can't even substantiate is the point that the PUP are a unionist party representative of working class loyalists communities. They would style themselves as on the more left wing side of politics, yet working class unionists and loyalists vote in their droves for the DUP. Why do they do that? Bigotry and sectarianism primarily, although the PUP have their hands dripping in blood - I don't think their rhetoric and politics are anywhere near as extreme or sectarian as that of the DUP or UUP for that matter.

And that is why working class loyalists vote for the DUP.

So my question is how is it possible to engage with unionism, their whole existence, their whole culture is to lord it over the Catholic subclass. Things are a lot better these days. There is a certain element of middle class liberal voters of a unionist background that will vote Alliance, other than those however 90% of unionism will vote for the sectarian policies and ideology or the DUP/UUP/TUV.

[Angelo]

DUP don't like SF and SF don't the DUP. SF play the Republican card to get votes and the DUP play the unionist card. Until a viable option to either party becomes a realistic voting option you'll have a government made up of SF/DUP. What you get then is the current stormont executive were both parties in gov disagree on practically everything and nothing gets done or achieves

Spoken like some eejit who takes his views from RTE without knowing anything about the situation up north.

[tonto1888]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

Why do we need a left wing party for unionism. What can't we have a left wing party that encompasses everyone

Left wing parties fly in the face of unionism as unionism is all about a protestant ascendacny.

Unionists would only vote for a deeply sectarian left wing party.

And that's the thing the lads from the free state don't understand, the mindset of unionism means it simply cannot be engaged with, it's a section of society that will continually cut its nose off to spite its face.

There's bound to be Working class left wing unionists and loyalists and that's who you start with. They can't all be right wing nuts. I refuse to believe that

My initial point here before Milltown made a clown of himself arguing something he can't even substantiate is the point that the PUP are a unionist party representative of working class loyalists communities. They would style themselves as on the more left wing side of politics, yet working class unionists and loyalists vote in their droves for the DUP. Why do they do that? Bigotry and sectarianism primarily, although the PUP have their hands dripping in blood - I don't think their rhetoric and politics are anywhere near as extreme or sectarian as that of the DUP or UUP for that matter.

And that is why working class loyalists vote for the DUP.

So my question is how is it possible to engage with unionism, their whole existence, their whole culture is to lord it over the Catholic subclass. Things are a lot better these days. There is a certain element of middle class liberal voters of a unionist background that will vote Alliance, other than those however 90% of unionism will vote for the sectarian policies and ideology or the DUP/UUP/TUV.

I have Protestant friends who definitely put working class values above sectarian bullshit. They are out there. They're the ones who need to be engaged first and then build from there

[marty34]

DUP don't like SF and SF don't the DUP. SF play the Republican card to get votes and the DUP play the unionist card. Until a viable option to either party becomes a realistic voting option you'll have a government made up of SF/DUP. What you get then is the current stormont executive were both parties in gov disagree on practically everything and nothing gets done or achieves

The typical Fianna Gael scenario - "they're both as bad as each other".

I see the Brits really liked Bruton as Taoiseach in the released papers today.  They said he was the best they could get and hopefully he'd get another term.

FFS..

Plus all this...it's up to people to vote SF and the DUP out etc. and vote for somebody else...blah, blah...fu*king blah.

Every election from now on, whether you like it or not, will be a green/orange headcount.  That's the end game - partition has come full circle and it's a numbers game.  People like you, from the 26 counties, don't get it.  You just don't understand it.

[Milltown Row2]

I haven't dodged any question! I'm losing the will, they are voted in because there is no alternative that will stop SF from running the show, it's as simple as that. That's me answering that 4 times now...

It might not be the answer you want but it is, the PUP won't ever get the vote, until they have a unifying voice that'll get both sides of that working class unionist on board. Phew you are hard work lad!

Your missus must be tortured when asking what you want for dinner!

And how do you engage in a community who will vote against their own needs in order to further a sectarian agenda.

The DUP have absolutely no interest in working class protestants and their need and show quite open disregard for them, they those working class protestants further the sectarian agenda of the DUP.

So I'll ask you once again - how do you engage with a section of society like that where a Protestant ascendancy and sectarianism is their sole interest? A section of society who vote to oppress themselves so long as the Catholics get it worse?

Tell me how you engage with that.

Here's the thing Angelo I don't have engage with it, neither do you, I've answered and given you the reasons, if you don't accept those then you need to engage with someone from that area, of course you won't as you (based on the rubbish you've spewed so far) haven't the capacity to understand what way a unionist/loyalist thinks

So you're contending something and when pressed on it you can't back up your contention?

The floor was yours but you shit it when you the opportunity to articulate your point AGAIN.

Pattern emerging here.

I'm answering your question ffs! The DUP get those votes to keep SF out of majority... please please take that as an answer, again it's not the answer you like but it's the truth.

And you talk about abuse from me?