Northern nationalists versus ?

[michaelg]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

Mick I worked in a engineering company that employed Over 4000 workers of which 99% of them came from the Protestant communities, now I'll tell you which communities they were. Shank I'll, Tiger bay Newtownards rd, Ards, and Protestant north Belfast.

These opportunities were not available to anyone in my dads family or his dads family. But you'd know that, from those books you've read..

I wasn't having a go at you by the way.  Merely pointing out that there were plenty of folk from working class unionist backgrounds too with limited opportunities.

[Milltown Row2]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

As of 2017, 47% of students in NI third level institutions were Catholics with only 30% Protestant

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-47-of-higher-education-students-are-catholics-and-30-protestants-35874614.html

That does not smack of a state which is "the same place as 1922", as Milltown Row claimed

As of 2017! Brilliant only taken 100 years to improve our worth, whereas when the south closed up shop, they had equality right away

The Catholic share of college places has been improving for decades

And none of it thanks to the PIRA

Interesting you're only finding out now that Catholics make up a much a bigger share of college place than Protestants

I would have thought that living there, you would have already known this

I suppose it's a demonstration that one can live somewhere and be still be blissfully unaware of basic facts about the place

Why wouldn't I have known that? I was in 3rd level education for 12 years.

That wasn't the question, since the 1920's we were not getting the same rights, education is one area, and the decades you speak of is the last 20 years or so. That still leaves us 80 of being left far short of what it should have been.

[Angelo]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

[Milltown Row2]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

Mick I worked in a engineering company that employed Over 4000 workers of which 99% of them came from the Protestant communities, now I'll tell you which communities they were. Shank I'll, Tiger bay Newtownards rd, Ards, and Protestant north Belfast.

These opportunities were not available to anyone in my dads family or his dads family. But you'd know that, from those books you've read..

I wasn't having a go at you by the way.  Merely pointing out that there were plenty of folk from working class unionist backgrounds too with limited opportunities.

Maybe I was a bit abrasive there, apologies

[sid waddell]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

As of 2017, 47% of students in NI third level institutions were Catholics with only 30% Protestant

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-47-of-higher-education-students-are-catholics-and-30-protestants-35874614.html

That does not smack of a state which is "the same place as 1922", as Milltown Row claimed

As of 2017! Brilliant only taken 100 years to improve our worth, whereas when the south closed up shop, they had equality right away

The Catholic share of college places has been improving for decades

And none of it thanks to the PIRA

Interesting you're only finding out now that Catholics make up a much a bigger share of college place than Protestants

I would have thought that living there, you would have already known this

I suppose it's a demonstration that one can live somewhere and be still be blissfully unaware of basic facts about the place

Catholic places in college have improved in line with SF's vote in the O6. So it probably is a lot to do with the PIRA.

Sure, mate, those PIRA scholarships and bursaries were invaluable

I hear the Gibraltar three were the finest Geography teachers in the wee six

Brendan Burns was a chemistry teacher extraordinaire killed by his own experiment in the lab

Jim Lynagh was PE teacher with a special interest in orienteering

Ivor Bell loved an oul' archeological dig

Who knows how many young Catholics would have made it to college but for their demise

[sid waddell]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

As of 2017, 47% of students in NI third level institutions were Catholics with only 30% Protestant

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-47-of-higher-education-students-are-catholics-and-30-protestants-35874614.html

That does not smack of a state which is "the same place as 1922", as Milltown Row claimed

As of 2017! Brilliant only taken 100 years to improve our worth, whereas when the south closed up shop, they had equality right away

The Catholic share of college places has been improving for decades

And none of it thanks to the PIRA

Interesting you're only finding out now that Catholics make up a much a bigger share of college place than Protestants

I would have thought that living there, you would have already known this

I suppose it's a demonstration that one can live somewhere and be still be blissfully unaware of basic facts about the place

Why wouldn't I have known that? I was in 3rd level education for 12 years.

That wasn't the question, since the 1920's we were not getting the same rights, education is one area, and the decades you speak of is the last 20 years or so. That still leaves us 80 of being left far short of what it should have been.

I don't know why you wouldn't have known it

All I know is that it appears you didn't know it

[Angelo]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

As of 2017, 47% of students in NI third level institutions were Catholics with only 30% Protestant

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-47-of-higher-education-students-are-catholics-and-30-protestants-35874614.html

That does not smack of a state which is "the same place as 1922", as Milltown Row claimed

As of 2017! Brilliant only taken 100 years to improve our worth, whereas when the south closed up shop, they had equality right away

The Catholic share of college places has been improving for decades

And none of it thanks to the PIRA

Interesting you're only finding out now that Catholics make up a much a bigger share of college place than Protestants

I would have thought that living there, you would have already known this

I suppose it's a demonstration that one can live somewhere and be still be blissfully unaware of basic facts about the place

Catholic places in college have improved in line with SF's vote in the O6. So it probably is a lot to do with the PIRA.

Sure, mate, those PIRA scholarships and bursaries were invaluable

I hear the Gibraltar three were the finest Geography teachers in the wee six

Brendan Burns was a chemistry teacher extraordinaire killed by his own experiment in the lab

Jim Lynagh was PE teacher with a special interest in orienteering

Ivor Bell loved an oul' archeological dig

Who knows how many young Catholics would have made it to college but for their demise

You're morphing into Ruth Dudley Edwards again, hate and bigotry just oozes out of you.

[sid waddell]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

It's weird that you're so pro-PIRA and yet are so anti-old-IRA

A PIRA supporter who regrets that Ireland didn't remain part of the United Kingdom, this forum throws up all sorts

[Milltown Row2]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly describe any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness.

Sammy Wilson Edwin Poots and Arlene also have been consistent on the north, their experiences are different to mine, completely different to Sids as well, it doesn't make them or him right, but I'd view a unionist view over his, that's been their experience, life and tradition.

An accident of birth means they have brought up different to me and given better opportunities also, I don't hate them for that.

Sids view is very black and white, he's managed to mention Trump Putin and even brought in Nazi's!

Not sure how old you are, but do you think that Protestants from the Shankill, Tiger's Bay etc had better opportunities open to them than you?

As of 2017, 47% of students in NI third level institutions were Catholics with only 30% Protestant

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-47-of-higher-education-students-are-catholics-and-30-protestants-35874614.html

That does not smack of a state which is "the same place as 1922", as Milltown Row claimed

As of 2017! Brilliant only taken 100 years to improve our worth, whereas when the south closed up shop, they had equality right away

The Catholic share of college places has been improving for decades

And none of it thanks to the PIRA

Interesting you're only finding out now that Catholics make up a much a bigger share of college place than Protestants

I would have thought that living there, you would have already known this

I suppose it's a demonstration that one can live somewhere and be still be blissfully unaware of basic facts about the place

Why wouldn't I have known that? I was in 3rd level education for 12 years.

That wasn't the question, since the 1920's we were not getting the same rights, education is one area, and the decades you speak of is the last 20 years or so. That still leaves us 80 of being left far short of what it should have been.

I don't know why you wouldn't have known it

All I know is that it appears you didn't know it

If you'd have asked me the question I'd have answered it, I've already said that to you in last post

[tonto1888]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly resist any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness in the meantime.

It's hard not to have disdain for people who shower you with furious disdain merely for pointing out that the PIRA campaign was an abomination, or for pointing out that Margaret Tebbit, the wife of a Tory politician, was horrifically disabled by a bomb planted by PIRA murderers

That's the sort of healthy disdain everybody should have

Not having such leaves one open to supporting more abominations in the future

Very strange comparison of my support for Dublin GAA with blood and soil nationalism

As it happens I am open to the notion of a split in Dublin as long as it is accompanied by amalgamations of other counties

Just out of interest do you condemn loyalist and British army atrocities with the same vigour?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

[sid waddell]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly resist any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness in the meantime.

It's hard not to have disdain for people who shower you with furious disdain merely for pointing out that the PIRA campaign was an abomination, or for pointing out that Margaret Tebbit, the wife of a Tory politician, was horrifically disabled by a bomb planted by PIRA murderers

That's the sort of healthy disdain everybody should have

Not having such leaves one open to supporting more abominations in the future

Very strange comparison of my support for Dublin GAA with blood and soil nationalism

As it happens I am open to the notion of a split in Dublin as long as it is accompanied by amalgamations of other counties

Just out of interest do you condemn loyalist and British army atrocities with the same vigour?

Why wouldn't I?

The problem with this forum and with that type of ultra-paranoid nationalist opinion is that if you class Patrick Magee as murdering scum than people automatically assume you're an apologist for murdering scum like Torrens Knight or the paras on Bloody Sunday or Wright and Fisher or Lee Clegg

Yet that couldn't be further from the truth - obviously

This is a problem this strain of northern nationalism has to seriously confront - this ultra-paranoid "you're with the PIRA or you're against the Catholic population" mentality

It's crazy - but that's what nationalism is - the mentality that if you're not with us 100% you're agin us as a people

It is one of the biggest stumbling blocks towards a united Ireland

Read what I've written about the DUP elsewhere and tell me whether its complimentary or not

The DUP is an ultra-nationalist party, the exact same pathology of the mind as Trump and Putin, the exact same eternal victimhood mentality

The best thing the north could ever do is to abandon Troubles politics and ditch the DUP/Sinn Fein cartel

But "themmuns" vote DUP because "youseuns" vote SF, and youseuns now vote SF because themmuns vote DUP

Chicken and egg

It's happening down here too

Fine Gael are happy with this because they see it as a way to maintain relevance, to be part of a new cartel against Sinn Fein and to cut Fianna Fail out

As I said previously, we're only just getting over Civil War politics now, a replacement of that with Troubles politics and rabid pro-united Ireland nationalist politics will be a disaster for politics in the Republic in general

But it looks like it's going to happen, and that means hard truths have to be confronted

[tonto1888]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly resist any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness in the meantime.

It's hard not to have disdain for people who shower you with furious disdain merely for pointing out that the PIRA campaign was an abomination, or for pointing out that Margaret Tebbit, the wife of a Tory politician, was horrifically disabled by a bomb planted by PIRA murderers

That's the sort of healthy disdain everybody should have

Not having such leaves one open to supporting more abominations in the future

Very strange comparison of my support for Dublin GAA with blood and soil nationalism

As it happens I am open to the notion of a split in Dublin as long as it is accompanied by amalgamations of other counties

Just out of interest do you condemn loyalist and British army atrocities with the same vigour?

Why wouldn't I?

The problem with this forum and with that type of ultra-paranoid nationalist opinion is that if you class Patrick Magee as murdering scum than people automatically assume you're an apologist for murdering scum like Torrens Knight or the paras on Bloody Sunday or Wright and Fisher or Lee Clegg

Yet that couldn't be further from the truth - obviously

This is a problem this strain of northern nationalism has to seriously confront - this ultra-paranoid "you're with the PIRA or you're against the Catholic population" mentality

It's crazy - but that's what nationalism is - the mentality that if you're not with us 100% you're agin us as a people

It is one of the biggest stumbling blocks towards a united Ireland

Read what I've written about the DUP elsewhere and tell me whether its complimentary or not

The DUP is an ultra-nationalist party, the exact same pathology of the mind as Trump and Putin, the exact same eternal victimhood mentality

The best thing the north could ever do is to abandon Troubles politics and ditch the DUP/Sinn Fein cartel

But "themmuns" vote DUP because "youseuns" vote SF, and youseuns now vote SF because themmuns vote DUP

Chicken and egg

It's happening down here too

Fine Gael are happy with this because they see it as a way to maintain relevance, to be part of a new cartel against Sinn Fein and to cut Fianna Fail out

As I said previously, we're only just getting over Civil War politics now, a replacement of that with Troubles politics and rabid pro-united Ireland nationalist politics will be a disaster for politics in the Republic in general

But it looks like it's going to happen, and that means hard truths have to be confronted

I haven't seen you do it before. Hence my question. I've seen what you said about the DUP. Not complimentary.
I'm a nationalist and round of it. Not in the xenophobic sense. I'm Irish and proud to be. I love our country, our culture, our heritage and am proud of it. For me a UI consists of Irishmen and women and any one who wants to live  regardless of their religion or political persuasion or their gender or sexuality. To me that's what nationalism is. Not your right wing ultra conservative Christian USA nationalist or your flag waving Union Jack tattooed British boneheads. 

[clonadmad]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

So the Republic of Ireland is in your words a "Rotten state"?

Can I take it then you won't want to be a part of a United Ireland then?

You've more in common in denigrating the Republic of Ireland with Jim Alister than you do with me.

[sid waddell]

But it's not a lie

Southerners are continually told by a particular breed of northern nationalist, summed up you, that they should have no view on the north

But these same northern nationalists are total hypocrites because they generally have firm views on southern politics

Also if northern nationalists tell southerners they have no right to have a view on anything on the north, which they do, don't then turn around and tell us we "abandoned" you

After all, you're the same people telling us we've no right to have a view - and if that's the case, well then "abandonment" by the south is exactly what you wanted

More hypocrisy

You shouldn't have a view on the north because you haven't a clue about it, not one single iota. All you spout is complete and utter ignorance and bile about something you don't understand or have no practical experience of.

The only hypocrisy being shown here is from you. You're the type of person who would be dangerous if they had any intelligence.

I disagree with a lot of Sid's views, but he also
Makes very fair points , which tend to get undermined by his approach and apparent disdain for what he insultingly terms " a certain breed of northern nationalists" . He argues articulately but his apparent lack of understanding , empathy and rapport indicates a lack of the social intelligence required to be persuasive . Tbf he  is very consistent/persistent but I would agree that his/her views need to be put into the context of lack
Of meaningful personal experience of "The North" . He deserves enormous credit however in uniting "northern nationalists" whether SF, SDLP or whoever else  in opposition to his approach. I understand His opposition to the exclusive and unhealthy adherence to place manifested in nationalism ,  but this is in direct contrast to his unwavering Adherence to Dublin as  an permanent entity in GAA terms. I would agree that his defence of Dublin's ridiculously unfair advantages is like those unionists who begrudgingly resist any movement towards equality , as if they are concessions . Understandable resistance to the nuclear option of splitting Dublin( or in unionists' case United Ireland) is accompanied by an unneighbourly lack
Of generosity towards agreeing to equality and fairness in the meantime.

It's hard not to have disdain for people who shower you with furious disdain merely for pointing out that the PIRA campaign was an abomination, or for pointing out that Margaret Tebbit, the wife of a Tory politician, was horrifically disabled by a bomb planted by PIRA murderers

That's the sort of healthy disdain everybody should have

Not having such leaves one open to supporting more abominations in the future

Very strange comparison of my support for Dublin GAA with blood and soil nationalism

As it happens I am open to the notion of a split in Dublin as long as it is accompanied by amalgamations of other counties

Just out of interest do you condemn loyalist and British army atrocities with the same vigour?

Why wouldn't I?

The problem with this forum and with that type of ultra-paranoid nationalist opinion is that if you class Patrick Magee as murdering scum than people automatically assume you're an apologist for murdering scum like Torrens Knight or the paras on Bloody Sunday or Wright and Fisher or Lee Clegg

Yet that couldn't be further from the truth - obviously

This is a problem this strain of northern nationalism has to seriously confront - this ultra-paranoid "you're with the PIRA or you're against the Catholic population" mentality

It's crazy - but that's what nationalism is - the mentality that if you're not with us 100% you're agin us as a people

It is one of the biggest stumbling blocks towards a united Ireland

Read what I've written about the DUP elsewhere and tell me whether its complimentary or not

The DUP is an ultra-nationalist party, the exact same pathology of the mind as Trump and Putin, the exact same eternal victimhood mentality

The best thing the north could ever do is to abandon Troubles politics and ditch the DUP/Sinn Fein cartel

But "themmuns" vote DUP because "youseuns" vote SF, and youseuns now vote SF because themmuns vote DUP

Chicken and egg

It's happening down here too

Fine Gael are happy with this because they see it as a way to maintain relevance, to be part of a new cartel against Sinn Fein and to cut Fianna Fail out

As I said previously, we're only just getting over Civil War politics now, a replacement of that with Troubles politics and rabid pro-united Ireland nationalist politics will be a disaster for politics in the Republic in general

But it looks like it's going to happen, and that means hard truths have to be confronted

I haven't seen you do it before. Hence my question. I've seen what you said about the DUP. Not complimentary.
I'm a nationalist and round of it. Not in the xenophobic sense. I'm Irish and proud to be. I love our country, our culture, our heritage and am proud of it. For me a UI consists of Irishmen and women and any one who wants to live  regardless of their religion or political persuasion or their gender or sexuality. To me that's what nationalism is. Not your right wing ultra conservative Christian USA nationalist or your flag waving Union Jack tattooed British boneheads.

There aren't people defending murdering Loyalist and British Army scum on here

But there are some people defending their equivalent on the other side or offering weasel worded justifications for what they did

This island contains a large number of people who class themselves as British, not Irish

Any future form of a united Ireland will have to take this into account very, very, very carefully

On this thread and elsewhere, a common refrain from northern nationalists to people from the Republic is "youse abandoned us"

Well, those people who do not class themselves as Irish are going to feel exactly the same way if any form of united Ireland ever happens - that they have been abandoned

And this is a problem

A problem which can only be approached by conciliation, understanding and recognition

My feeling is that there is a large rump of Irish nationalist opinion which simply does not understand this, and that a future united Ireland will be used to assert supremacy over Protestant Unionists

If Irish Catholics are aiming "West Brit" and "Ruth Dudley Edwards" jibes at fellow Irish Catholics, and they have been for years, what hope is there that Protestant Unionists will be treated any better by that rump, probably not much I'd say