Author Topic: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward  (Read 2237 times)

APM

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Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« on: November 02, 2020, 09:38:32 AM »
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!

Aristo 60

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2020, 09:47:32 AM »
I agree with all of the above!

Rossfan

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2020, 09:50:10 AM »
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.
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Shamrock Shore

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2020, 09:50:46 AM »
Yes - I can see it having its merits and I was a big fan of the Qualifiers. I do think they have passed their sell by date at this stage.

five points

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 09:57:10 AM »
The only argument against a return to a full knockout championship is the problem of counties knowing their championship is pretty much already over as soon as the draw is made, if they draw one of the big guns.  A number of Cavan players hung up their boots in 2000 when we drew Derry in the first round, a few months after they had hammered us in the previous championship.

APM

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 10:17:26 AM »
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.

It's arguably better than getting beaten and having to play another game four weeks later, by which time, 2 or 3 players have defected to the states and there is no enthusiasm for a delayed execution with games played in front of paltry crowds and some teams taking hammerings and others limping on through a couple of rounds, perhaps making it through to the Super 8s where their fate will be sealed.  Where is the excitement in that?

For the Monaghans and Tyrones, yes, they might well get a backdoor run to the Super 8s.  But there is also a beauty in having these teams out at this stage as it opens things up.

At least when you are out, you can focus on the club scene.  A few more games in the league will more than compensate, because that is really where counties will make long term progression.

 

BennyCake

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2020, 10:18:39 AM »
Knockout will never return. Too much money involved.

ballinaman

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2020, 10:21:54 AM »
Knockout will never return. Too much money involved.
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APM

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 10:38:26 AM »
How much money is involved really?

Crowds at the qualifiers and Super 8s have been falling. The atmosphere has been dying and my instinct is that we are in a viscous circle, with boring football, falling crowds, poor atmosphere.  Something has to change because for the last 10 years, the GAA has been killing the goose that laid the golden egg.  Things have to change and it is the knockout nature of the competition that gave the championship its character.  Meanwhile, an extended league would add to the coffers. 


Eire90

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 10:45:10 AM »
True agree with everything if there was a backdoor tyrone v donegal would not have meant as much and probably less hype about it.

Eire90

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 10:47:07 AM »
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.

It's arguably better than getting beaten and having to play another game four weeks later, by which time, 2 or 3 players have defected to the states and there is no enthusiasm for a delayed execution with games played in front of paltry crowds and some teams taking hammerings and others limping on through a couple of rounds, perhaps making it through to the Super 8s where their fate will be sealed.  Where is the excitement in that?

For the Monaghans and Tyrones, yes, they might well get a backdoor run to the Super 8s.  But there is also a beauty in having these teams out at this stage as it opens things up.

At least when you are out, you can focus on the club scene.  A few more games in the league will more than compensate, because that is really where counties will make long term progression.


If tyrone and monaghan people feel that way then there are not true gaa fans and only care about their own county very selfish

Eire90

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2020, 10:47:35 AM »
If super 8s return its a disgrace.

Eire90

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 10:49:10 AM »
The Supers 8s stink of GAA capitalism

Hound

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2020, 11:19:17 AM »
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!
You say we can play more league games, and I love the league, but league just isn't as important as championship.

If this was a normal year and Donegal beat Tyrone in the first week of June, you think it would be fair that that's them gone for the whole summer?

Interesting that you use Dublin in your example "they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor", given the Dubs have never got to an All Ireland final through the backdoor. Dublin were probably the biggest losers from the introduction of the backdoor initially as having the record of the most times a provincial champion was knocked out by a team who came through the backdoor. Rossies and Monaghan in recent years have possibly taken on that unwanted record.

APM

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Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 11:33:46 AM »
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!
You say we can play more league games, and I love the league, but league just isn't as important as championship.

If this was a normal year and Donegal beat Tyrone in the first week of June, you think it would be fair that that's them gone for the whole summer?

Interesting that you use Dublin in your example "they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor", given the Dubs have never got to an All Ireland final through the backdoor. Dublin were probably the biggest losers from the introduction of the backdoor initially as having the record of the most times a provincial champion was knocked out by a team who came through the backdoor. Rossies and Monaghan in recent years have possibly taken on that unwanted record.

Armagh likewise  - Lost QFs as Ulster Champions in 2004, 2006 and 2008.  No reason for picking on Dublin, only that they are the strongest team in the country this last 5 years and I am conscious that they haven't lost a game in Leinster during that time.