Author Topic: Ulster Club SFC 2019  (Read 77226 times)

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #660 on: December 01, 2020, 10:06:04 PM »
I see Cahair O'Kane has absolutely savaged club football in Derry.

Quote
THE theme tune to M*A*S*H is as it was intended to be – “the stupidest song ever written”.

When the show’s director Robert Altman sat down to pen it to fit the lead character, he couldn’t compute his brain to dumb it down sufficiently.

He gave the task to his 14-year-old son Michael, who wrote the lyrics in five minutes.

Never over-estimate the Brits. They were so taken that they made it the number one selling single in the UK back in early June, 1980.

Altman later said that he made $70,000 from directing the film, while his teenage son earned over $1m for having co-written the song.

Forty years on, it’s hard to think imagine that anything worse has topped the charts.

But as the cars housing Derry players snaked their way around the foot of Slieve Gallion, that would have been the song they’d have heard topping the charts en-route home from Dean McGlinchey Park.

On June 8, 1980, Derry hosted Cavan in the Ulster Championship.

Derry were between teams, the double-winning side of the mid-70s not yet replaced by the late ‘80s side that would form a bridge to All-Ireland success.

Mickey O’Brien was just turning 23 at the time. He was the star player for The Loup, who had yet to regather their feet and were swimming around in junior football.

O’Brien was only back from a broken arm. The memory stands out so vividly because it would be his last championship game for Derry.

40 years on, Mickey O’Brien’s presence on the teamsheet that day retains a place in Derry footballing history.

By the time next year’s championship comes around, more than 15,000 days will have passed.

To this day, it remains the last time a player from a junior club started a championship game for Derry.

In terms of the GAA, Derry is a tiny county.

Like the other five northern counties, roughly half of the 250,000-odd population is not big on all things Gaelic.

150,000 of the inhabitants are from the city, which is getting there but itself not yet huge on the idea.

There are 40 clubs in Derry, which is too many. Dungiven parish for example has three clubs for a population of less than 3,000.

The strength of club football in the county has two strands. At the top end, it is fierce. Teams that win Derry championships tend to win, or go very close, to winning Ulster championships.

But the county’s provincial record at junior and intermediate level is very poor.

Clubs at those levels may be sore about seldom having players picked to represent the county, but it’s not a big club bias.

The players do not exist outside senior football. Anyone who has had any hope of making the grade has been given a chance.

Only 18 intermediate players in the last decade have cut the mustard to any degree, and in that you’re counting the likes of Enda Lynn and Niall Loughlin, whose club Greenlough have played as much senior football as intermediate.

Derry football is an upside-down pyramid that balances on those at its very peak. The base is incredibly narrow.

Widening the base of the pyramid was the focus that has driven the county’s new strategy for coaching and player development, intended to be fully implemented by 2026 if it receive the backing of clubs.

It is easily the most radical, ambitious plan the county has embarked on in living memory, if not far beyond it.

Acceptance will not be easily come by in some corners.

District teams threatening the status quo of the big clubs? Silent sidelines? One-touch football for U11s?

For anyone against it, consider this.

David Clifford’s club, Fossa, played in the Kerry junior championship this year.

Jack Barry, superb in the two All-Ireland finals last year, won an All-Ireland junior club title back in January with Na Gaeil.

Darran O’Sullivan (Glenbeigh-Glencar), Tadhg Morley, Gavin Crowley, Adrian and Killane Spillane (Templenoe) have won All-Ireland junior club titles since 2016.

They followed in the footsteps of the likes of Seamus Moynihan, who won a Kerry junior title with Glenflesk in 1992. He also won three senior championships with East Kerry.

Kerry is a hugely rural county that struggles massively with depopulation. Small clubs struggling to field is not what you associate with such a powerhouse, but it is the reality.

In that regard, they are no different to Derry. But they continually keep the base of the pyramid wide by creating pathways and opportunities for players, regardless of their club.

The committee tasked with reforming Derry’s fortunes spoke repeatedly to their coaching officer, Terence Houlihan.

The idea to create four new district clubs to add into the current senior championship is unashamedly straight from the Kerry playbook.

Just as the premise of having a Games Promotion Officer (GPO) in every club is stolen from Dublin.

You don’t need to know much about Gaelic football to understand that if there are two counties to steal ideas from, those are the two.

Perhaps the biggest difference, though, could be at underage level. As well as putting district teams into the minor championship, there are significant plans to change how the game is played by children under 13 years of age.

Up to U11, players will be allowed one bounce or solo before they have to part the ball.

At U13, it will be two touches.

The idea is that by the time they are coming to U15, the players will naturally play with their heads up. That they will have better awareness of the game around them, as opposed to the big lad running the field with the ball, then turning 18 and realising all the other lads are as big as him now.

Silent sidelines are intended to further encourage autonomous thinking. Players will be coached during the week and then allowed to learn for themselves during games.

There is also a proposal to extend the Go Games window by eight weeks to allow for alternating hurling and football week about.

It may be a hard sell to some clubs obsessed with the idea of their own silverware.

There may even be smaller clubs against the district teams because of their own sense of identity.

But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting Derry to win Ulster titles. That’s either at inter-county or intermediate and junior club level.

It has been 22 years since the county won the Anglo Celt.

Craigbane won the last intermediate title in 2011, and they’re now playing junior football.

The nearest Derry has come to an Ulster junior club title is sharing the first half of Derrytresk’s name.

What is happening now is not working.

So clubs can reject the proposals and find that in 20 years’ time, it’s so broken that it’s unfixable.

Or they can accept change, and perhaps visions of things to be.

Hard to disagree with that.

JoG2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #661 on: December 01, 2020, 10:33:22 PM »
I see Cahair O'Kane has absolutely savaged club football in Derry.

Quote
THE theme tune to M*A*S*H is as it was intended to be – “the stupidest song ever written”.

When the show’s director Robert Altman sat down to pen it to fit the lead character, he couldn’t compute his brain to dumb it down sufficiently.

He gave the task to his 14-year-old son Michael, who wrote the lyrics in five minutes.

Never over-estimate the Brits. They were so taken that they made it the number one selling single in the UK back in early June, 1980.

Altman later said that he made $70,000 from directing the film, while his teenage son earned over $1m for having co-written the song.

Forty years on, it’s hard to think imagine that anything worse has topped the charts.

But as the cars housing Derry players snaked their way around the foot of Slieve Gallion, that would have been the song they’d have heard topping the charts en-route home from Dean McGlinchey Park.

On June 8, 1980, Derry hosted Cavan in the Ulster Championship.

Derry were between teams, the double-winning side of the mid-70s not yet replaced by the late ‘80s side that would form a bridge to All-Ireland success.

Mickey O’Brien was just turning 23 at the time. He was the star player for The Loup, who had yet to regather their feet and were swimming around in junior football.

O’Brien was only back from a broken arm. The memory stands out so vividly because it would be his last championship game for Derry.

40 years on, Mickey O’Brien’s presence on the teamsheet that day retains a place in Derry footballing history.

By the time next year’s championship comes around, more than 15,000 days will have passed.

To this day, it remains the last time a player from a junior club started a championship game for Derry.

In terms of the GAA, Derry is a tiny county.

Like the other five northern counties, roughly half of the 250,000-odd population is not big on all things Gaelic.

150,000 of the inhabitants are from the city, which is getting there but itself not yet huge on the idea.

There are 40 clubs in Derry, which is too many. Dungiven parish for example has three clubs for a population of less than 3,000.

The strength of club football in the county has two strands. At the top end, it is fierce. Teams that win Derry championships tend to win, or go very close, to winning Ulster championships.

But the county’s provincial record at junior and intermediate level is very poor.

Clubs at those levels may be sore about seldom having players picked to represent the county, but it’s not a big club bias.

The players do not exist outside senior football. Anyone who has had any hope of making the grade has been given a chance.

Only 18 intermediate players in the last decade have cut the mustard to any degree, and in that you’re counting the likes of Enda Lynn and Niall Loughlin, whose club Greenlough have played as much senior football as intermediate.

Derry football is an upside-down pyramid that balances on those at its very peak. The base is incredibly narrow.

Widening the base of the pyramid was the focus that has driven the county’s new strategy for coaching and player development, intended to be fully implemented by 2026 if it receive the backing of clubs.

It is easily the most radical, ambitious plan the county has embarked on in living memory, if not far beyond it.

Acceptance will not be easily come by in some corners.

District teams threatening the status quo of the big clubs? Silent sidelines? One-touch football for U11s?

For anyone against it, consider this.

David Clifford’s club, Fossa, played in the Kerry junior championship this year.

Jack Barry, superb in the two All-Ireland finals last year, won an All-Ireland junior club title back in January with Na Gaeil.

Darran O’Sullivan (Glenbeigh-Glencar), Tadhg Morley, Gavin Crowley, Adrian and Killane Spillane (Templenoe) have won All-Ireland junior club titles since 2016.

They followed in the footsteps of the likes of Seamus Moynihan, who won a Kerry junior title with Glenflesk in 1992. He also won three senior championships with East Kerry.

Kerry is a hugely rural county that struggles massively with depopulation. Small clubs struggling to field is not what you associate with such a powerhouse, but it is the reality.

In that regard, they are no different to Derry. But they continually keep the base of the pyramid wide by creating pathways and opportunities for players, regardless of their club.

The committee tasked with reforming Derry’s fortunes spoke repeatedly to their coaching officer, Terence Houlihan.

The idea to create four new district clubs to add into the current senior championship is unashamedly straight from the Kerry playbook.

Just as the premise of having a Games Promotion Officer (GPO) in every club is stolen from Dublin.

You don’t need to know much about Gaelic football to understand that if there are two counties to steal ideas from, those are the two.

Perhaps the biggest difference, though, could be at underage level. As well as putting district teams into the minor championship, there are significant plans to change how the game is played by children under 13 years of age.

Up to U11, players will be allowed one bounce or solo before they have to part the ball.

At U13, it will be two touches.

The idea is that by the time they are coming to U15, the players will naturally play with their heads up. That they will have better awareness of the game around them, as opposed to the big lad running the field with the ball, then turning 18 and realising all the other lads are as big as him now.

Silent sidelines are intended to further encourage autonomous thinking. Players will be coached during the week and then allowed to learn for themselves during games.

There is also a proposal to extend the Go Games window by eight weeks to allow for alternating hurling and football week about.

It may be a hard sell to some clubs obsessed with the idea of their own silverware.

There may even be smaller clubs against the district teams because of their own sense of identity.

But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting Derry to win Ulster titles. That’s either at inter-county or intermediate and junior club level.

It has been 22 years since the county won the Anglo Celt.

Craigbane won the last intermediate title in 2011, and they’re now playing junior football.

The nearest Derry has come to an Ulster junior club title is sharing the first half of Derrytresk’s name.

What is happening now is not working.

So clubs can reject the proposals and find that in 20 years’ time, it’s so broken that it’s unfixable.

Or they can accept change, and perhaps visions of things to be.

Hard to disagree with that.

Emm

* Kerry is some example to compare any junior clubs to, in any county in the land. How many of the Kerry clubs above were not playing senior division 1 against the likes of Crokes, Austin Stacks etc the year they won County, Prov and AI titles?

* Derry completely restructured its Intermediate and Junior Championships this past season to make them stronger. Greenlough and probably Craigbane would have been representing Derry at Intermediate / Junior this year. Both very strong at these grades

* Craigbane are playing junior due to restructuring of the leagues ie making the grade much stronger

* Limavady Wolfhounds were narrowly beaten in the 2018 Junior Club Final

Not surprised by the article at all tbh, he has form

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #662 on: December 01, 2020, 10:38:50 PM »
40 years since a Junior footballer represented the county and only 18 intermediate club footballers in that time to play for Derry is fairly mental is it not?

1/3 of the Derry team that started against Armagh were Slaughtneil players. The lack of depth in Derry club football is surely a big problem.

I don't like the Kerry model as I think it reinforces super clubs but it surely must be a huge worry for Derry football when club football has fallen as it has.

screenexile

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #663 on: December 01, 2020, 11:41:00 PM »
40 years since a Junior footballer represented the county and only 18 intermediate club footballers in that time to play for Derry is fairly mental is it not?

1/3 of the Derry team that started against Armagh were Slaughtneil players. The lack of depth in Derry club football is surely a big problem.

I don't like the Kerry model as I think it reinforces super clubs but it surely must be a huge worry for Derry football when club football has fallen as it has.

More drivel from Angelo... the Ulster Senior Club Championship has been in existence for 52 years and Tyrone teams have won 2 of them!!

The proposals are interesting. I’m not a fan of the new age groups but there is very little can be done about that now. Amalgamation teams have a lot of potential but they will be very very difficult to get right.

In terms of what results it will produce overall who knows but it’s fairly radical and at least there is a will at the top to change things for the better fingers crossed we can reap the rewards!

Milltown Row2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #664 on: December 02, 2020, 12:05:24 AM »
40 years since a Junior footballer represented the county and only 18 intermediate club footballers in that time to play for Derry is fairly mental is it not?

1/3 of the Derry team that started against Armagh were Slaughtneil players. The lack of depth in Derry club football is surely a big problem.

I don't like the Kerry model as I think it reinforces super clubs but it surely must be a huge worry for Derry football when club football has fallen as it has.

More drivel from Angelo... the Ulster Senior Club Championship has been in existence for 52 years and Tyrone teams have won 2 of them!!

The proposals are interesting. I’m not a fan of the new age groups but there is very little can be done about that now. Amalgamation teams have a lot of potential but they will be very very difficult to get right.

In terms of what results it will produce overall who knows but it’s fairly radical and at least there is a will at the top to change things for the better fingers crossed we can reap the rewards!

No only one team in Tyrone has won an Ulster title, but he loves a wee Ulster club argument
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #665 on: December 02, 2020, 09:30:30 AM »
40 years since a Junior footballer represented the county and only 18 intermediate club footballers in that time to play for Derry is fairly mental is it not?

1/3 of the Derry team that started against Armagh were Slaughtneil players. The lack of depth in Derry club football is surely a big problem.

I don't like the Kerry model as I think it reinforces super clubs but it surely must be a huge worry for Derry football when club football has fallen as it has.

More drivel from Angelo... the Ulster Senior Club Championship has been in existence for 52 years and Tyrone teams have won 2 of them!!

The proposals are interesting. I’m not a fan of the new age groups but there is very little can be done about that now. Amalgamation teams have a lot of potential but they will be very very difficult to get right.

In terms of what results it will produce overall who knows but it’s fairly radical and at least there is a will at the top to change things for the better fingers crossed we can reap the rewards!

Take it up with Cahair mate and stop deflecting.

You've brought up Tyrone club football when it's Derry club football in discussion. You are utterly obsessed with Tyrone, it dominates your thoughts night and day.

befair

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #666 on: December 02, 2020, 02:11:26 PM »
The purpose of club football is not to be a factory for county players, nor even to win championships; it's to knit communities together and give them a sense of local identity and pride.

quit yo jibbajabba

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #667 on: December 02, 2020, 02:16:24 PM »
Trone man brings up Derry football. Then slags Derry man for bringing up Trone football.

Or have i read this wrong?

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #668 on: December 02, 2020, 02:32:10 PM »
Trone man brings up Derry football. Then slags Derry man for bringing up Trone football.

Or have i read this wrong?

No, it's Cahair O'Kane who brought it up.

I just posted the article.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 03:57:51 PM by Angelo »

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #669 on: December 02, 2020, 02:35:44 PM »
The purpose of club football is not to be a factory for county players, nor even to win championships; it's to knit communities together and give them a sense of local identity and pride.

Yes but the point is that club football in Derry is very imbalanced. You have a few superclubs and the rest of them are absolutely miles off the pace, that is not a good thing. It's a bit like the current county structure now, you have a superteam like Dublin and the AI series just doesn't capture the imagination.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 03:57:33 PM by Angelo »