GAA and COVID-19: Is it worth it?

[ottoman]

I'm actually told the GAA has just said there'll be no schools' matches until after Christmas, at least.

Yes it will be at least after Christmas before there is any form of schools games for any activity, not just GAA. There is a huge lot of parents who were already concerned for sending their kids back to school as it is under these so called controlled measures. There would be absolute uproar ip Kid A complained that he or she had to sit beside Kid B who spent the morning playing/tackling someone in a schools football/hurling/rugby match etc...

[G@@]

Calm it down there like a good lad. I didn’t say any of those things.
I find it both laughable and frightening that you can throw around remarks like you did, put forward that article as “proof” of your comments and then throw a big strop when questioned about it.
You remind me a little of Gemma O’ D!

Didn't take long for the personal insults to come forth, now did it? Who is Gemma?

For the record, you claimed that;
“ There are 8,000+ recovered healthcare workers who are now immune, and these workers should be strategically placed to work with vulnerable and elderly people - where feasible.”

Not alone is the immunity totally debated still to this day, but you put forward a 3 month old article to argue that this immunity be the basis of care for the most vulnerable in society. You really should reed beyond the clickbait headings!

Immunity is debated where? Do you even have one iota of what immunity is? You get the virus, you either kill it or it kills you. If you kill the virus, which 99.96% of people who get this virus do (including plenty of 80+ year olds - ask any of your local county care nurses) your - wait for it - immune system builds up antibodies and t-cells to fight the *same* infection again. That's how your immune system works and how every human, animal and insect survives on this third rock from the sun.

In case you haven’t read the article, below are selected quotes

———————————————
“While the exact nature of immunity conferred on those who have recovered from the virus remains unclear, the HSE is telling staff that they can be “considered immune for 3 months from onset of symptoms”.

“ Health officials here have previously warned that levels of Covid-19 antibodies in the population are very low – between 1% and 5%.

This would mean that even if there is some immunity after recovering from Covid-19, very few people would have it. ”

————————————————

The first line: It's one bold statement isn't it - for the CMO/HSE to be telling frontline healthcare staff that they're immune for *at least* three months following symptoms.
The last two lines are irrelevant as it relates to the levels of virus recoveries in the community - not healthcare staff. As you say - clickbait scaremongering.

The claim made by the CMO and the HSE is made for the frontline healthcare staff. They're obviously confident in that assertation about immunity for healthcare staff considering that they are going into the very sphere of dealing with the virus face-to-face.

Questioning throwaway remarks like the one you made does not equate to supporting any lock downs (never mind 4 year ones). It certainly doesn’t mean I am not concerned about my job or the employment situation in general.
I happen to feel that GAA is a bit of a luxury at this time when we are trying to make sure other important things resume (you know things like schools etc!). The fewer unnecessary interactions, the greater the chance these things have of succeeding.
We can all disagree on what constitutes unnecessary interactions . That is fine.

They are not throw-away remarks - stop trying to portray me as some sort of "granny-killer" because I think the political decisions taken have been absurd - especially since the beginning of June. Take a look at what is happening around you, the country and indeed more than half the world is headed for an economic depression, one which we cannot emigrate from this time round. Is this worth it all? Really?

But don’t throw around dangerous remarks and then turn into a 7 year old girl when questioned about them.

I find your comment sexist and ageist. Well done.

[G@@]

I'm actually told the GAA has just said there'll be no schools' matches until after Christmas, at least.

Yes it will be at least after Christmas before there is any form of schools games for any activity, not just GAA. There is a huge lot of parents who were already concerned for sending their kids back to school as it is under these so called controlled measures. There would be absolute uproar ip Kid A complained that he or she had to sit beside Kid B who spent the morning playing/tackling someone in a schools football/hurling/rugby match etc...

Not a huge amount. A recent survey concluded that 33% were somewhat concerned - the other 66% probably threw a party on the morning of September 1st - I heard anecdotal accounts of parents going to the local hotel/cafe/restaurant to order the full Irish breakfast in celebration. Too right, the audacity of the state expecting parents to home-school kids during May/June was a disgrace. They should have been back then. If Kid A's mommy/doddy has an issue with their kid sitting beside Kid B then it's not the right time for Kid A to return to school and mommy/doddy should ensure that they provide the education - one would think they'd be almost experts at this stage considering their stint from mid-March to June.

[Keyser Söze]

A lot of bluster there G@@.
Hole & digging come to mind. To repeat, the article you quoted says literally nothing! It’s 3 months old, published by a rag and has a textbook clickbait headline. Nowhere does the CMO say that frontline staff are immune. The article basically says: they might have, for a while, we are not sure!
I could sit down and take your reply quote by quote... but frankly I’m not arsed!

Do I know what immunity is? No never heard of it!
But these guys probably do! Ever heard of them?
www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19#:~:text=There%20is%20currently%20no%20evidence,multi%2Dstep%20process.

Granted, the article is from April 20, but it still stands as their latest position (according to this article from last week- www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52446965).
Open to correction on this, but it’s the latest position I could find. Unless of course The Sun or The Guardian or Karen from Facebook have contradicted this position and I’m not aware of it?

Immunity will no doubt turn out to be a key player in the fight to bring Covid 19 under control. It does not appear (to my admittedly untrained eye) that the scientific evidence currently suggests that it is safe to use it as a means of attack right now. 

Finally, you find my comments sexist and ageist? Well all I can offer are those immortal words.... “I’m so so so sorry”!

[ottoman]

I'm actually told the GAA has just said there'll be no schools' matches until after Christmas, at least.

Yes it will be at least after Christmas before there is any form of schools games for any activity, not just GAA. There is a huge lot of parents who were already concerned for sending their kids back to school as it is under these so called controlled measures. There would be absolute uproar ip Kid A complained that he or she had to sit beside Kid B who spent the morning playing/tackling someone in a schools football/hurling/rugby match etc...

Not a huge amount. A recent survey concluded that 33% were somewhat concerned - the other 66% probably threw a party on the morning of September 1st - I heard anecdotal accounts of parents going to the local hotel/cafe/restaurant to order the full Irish breakfast in celebration. Too right, the audacity of the state expecting parents to home-school kids during May/June was a disgrace. They should have been back then. If Kid A's mommy/doddy has an issue with their kid sitting beside Kid B then it's not the right time for Kid A to return to school and mommy/doddy should ensure that they provide the education - one would think they'd be almost experts at this stage considering their stint from mid-March to June.

No need for the aggressive attack. I am only stating my opinion on how I think this will play out. I am no massive supporter of this government but what did you expect them to do in May/June when pretty every country in the world was adopting the same policy regarding home schooling and its precisely whey they wont be rushing kids back to the sports fields in schools because the last thing they want is the schools closed again!

[G@@]

A lot of bluster there G@@.
Hole & digging come to mind. To repeat, the article you quoted says literally nothing! It’s 3 months old, published by a rag and has a textbook clickbait headline. Nowhere does the CMO say that frontline staff are immune. The article basically says: they might have, for a while, we are not sure!
I could sit down and take your reply quote by quote... but frankly I’m not arsed!

Do I know what immunity is? No never heard of it!
But these guys probably do! Ever heard of them?
www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19#:~:text=There%20is%20currently%20no%20evidence,multi%2Dstep%20process.

Granted, the article is from April 20, but it still stands as their latest position (according to this article from last week- www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52446965).
Open to correction on this, but it’s the latest position I could find. Unless of course The Sun or The Guardian or Karen from Facebook have contradicted this position and I’m not aware of it?

Immunity will no doubt turn out to be a key player in the fight to bring Covid 19 under control. It does not appear (to my admittedly untrained eye) that the scientific evidence currently suggests that it is safe to use it as a means of attack right now. 

Finally, you find my comments sexist and ageist? Well all I can offer are those immortal words.... “I’m so so so sorry”!

https://www.thejournal.ie/immunity-health-coronavirus-covid-tony-holohan-nurses-healthcare-staff-5114368-Jun2020/

Under the photograph "Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said that guidelines on immunity only apply to healthcare workers."
Those guidelines being that Healthcare Workers are considered immune from Covid-19 for three months.

You can't be arsed replying because your arguments are weak - and yet you have tried to counter me by linking an article from April whilst criticising an article I posted from June!

Here is an article about immunity in Iceland that is fresh off the press https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-03/coronavirus-iceland-gives-us-some-good-covid-19?sref=2o0rZsF1 if you can be arsed.

Help us all if a real virus/pandemic ever strikes in the near future - the amount of crying wolf over this virus will surely hamper any attempts to curtail one.

[G@@]

No need for the aggressive attack. I am only stating my opinion on how I think this will play out. I am no massive supporter of this government but what did you expect them to do in May/June when pretty every country in the world was adopting the same policy regarding home schooling and its precisely whey they wont be rushing kids back to the sports fields in schools because the last thing they want is the schools closed again!

I'm not attacking *you* at all! I just think that the vast majority of the response has been panic and with very little thought gone into anything. Other EU nations were re-opening schools before summer break, we should have done the same. Kids are considered very low risk, and in an outdoor setting the risk is virtually nil. I would argue that the kids are therefore at a higher risk inside the school building than outside pucking a ball or kicking a ball.

There seems to be a sizeable minority in society screeching about what everyone else should be and shouldn't be doing regarding this virus. It's high time they were told to shut up and look after themselves if they are that worried about it. As I said at the end of my last post - help us all if a real virus/pandemic hits in the near future.

[burdizzo]

There seems to be a sizeable minority in society screeching about what everyone else should be and shouldn't be doing

Yup. But 'tis always the way.

[Keyser Söze]

You can't be arsed replying because your arguments are weak -

Ok, you win. We can all use that fancy quote button!

https://www.thejournal.ie/immunity-health-coronavirus-covid-tony-holohan-nurses-healthcare-staff-5114368-Jun2020/
Under the photograph "Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said that guidelines on immunity only apply to healthcare workers."
Those guidelines being that Healthcare Workers are considered immune from Covid-19 for three months.

You have quoted a caption, on a random photograph of a cyclist, written by some subeditor of the Journal.ie whose primary function is to attract clicks and readers, to appease advertisers, to keep their job. You then claimed that the CMO of Ireland said this. This is not correct. It is not even close to being correct. But you don't appear to like that being pointed out.
It is not a quote from Tony Holohan, Patches O Houlihan, Eoin 'Hooley' Holohan or anybody else with a similar name.

What the article actually quotes the then CMO as saying is this;

"“We just have recommended that measure for its application in healthcare settings because of the desire to ensure that we minimise the impact on the healthcare workforce,”

“We’ll keep the whole thing under review. That whole question, of the role of immunity and then participation by people in society in activity or work, is a question under ongoing international scrutiny and research,”

I interpret that as, we are not sure, but if we have to, and are faced with a chronic shortage in the health sector, we will take a chance on sending asymptomatic healthcare workers back to work. How would you interpret it? All healthcare workers who have previously tested positive for Covid are now immune?
To remind you, what you originally stated was

There are 8,000+ recovered healthcare workers who are now immune, and these workers should be strategically placed to work with vulnerable and elderly people - where feasible.

Can you please show me where Tony Holohan, Ronan Glynn, NPHET, Simon Harris, Stephen Donnelly, Paul Reid, the HSE,or anybody else has said anything that vaguely resembles the statement you made above there?

You can't be arsed replying because your arguments are weak - and yet you have tried to counter me by linking an article from April whilst criticising an article I posted from June!

I think you will find that
1. I acknowledged myself that it was from April
2. It still appears to be the official position of the WHO (heard of them??). Open to correction on this.
3. I included an article from last week that cited this as the official position of the WHO.
4. Unlike other sources, the WHO don’t actually rely on clicks and advertisements for funding. Therefore they tend to be a little less prolific, some would even say selective and considered, in publishing information!

Here is an article about immunity in Iceland that is fresh off the press https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-03/coronavirus-iceland-gives-us-some-good-covid-19?sref=2o0rZsF1 if you can be arsed.

Oh I can be arsed! And the article is indeed welcome news, even if it is (understandably) a little non committal on how immune and for how long people are! Why? Because hundreds of thousands of scientists around the World are frantically trying to establish this. And when they hopefully do, it will be fantastic news for you, me, the Average Joes dodgeball team and everybody else!
From that Icelandic article;
"It is also too early so say whether these antibody findings will hold over a longer time period. It’s possible that immunity will fade as time goes by, leaving us more exposed to the virus. But, for now, there’s no reason to fear the worst. The development of vaccines is happening at breakneck speed, and available evidence shows the human body is indeed developing some form of protection. In a year of overwhelmingly grim news, this is very welcome."
All positive, but also all wait and see- give us more time and hopefully we will know more.

I guess I'm just one of those who will wait for the WHO and/or the CMO to consider the many many many studies currently ongoing and make an informed decision regarding immunity.
I'm just not prepared to go off a throwaway remark in caption on the Journal.ie. Silly me!

[Keyser Söze]

Some reasonably solid news re vaccines-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8704803/Coronavirus-vaccine-provide-multi-year-protection-says-health-minister-Greg-Hunt.html

Talking about two injections, one month apart. They hope this will provide multi-year immunity.

Quotes the Oz Health Minister

“ It's likely that both vaccines will require what's called a double shot, or an initial vaccination and a booster approximately a month later”

“ The best advice that we have - and it's not determined yet - is that there is likely to be multiyear protection”

According to the article they will prioritize healthcare workers & vulnerable people in January & February.

Lots of ifs & buts. But at least some ray of hope for those who believe a vaccine is important.

[G@@]

Even some at the top of the HSE are beginning to question it all and advocate herd immunity - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701

[Keyser Söze]

Not alone is the immunity totally debated still to this day...

Immunity is debated where?

Here (for some reason you have to copy & paste the link for it to work)

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1012/1171131-coronavirus-reinfection-us-study/?fbclid=IwAR2dp5HFcJWcQnP_EwSBNdeT7yxioLpSJSZ_43cJ50dbf6D1RPEKRJFIO3w