Author Topic: Sports Funding in NI  (Read 8018 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2020, 03:04:14 PM »
More whinging:

Quote
DUP MLA expresses ‘considerable concern' over sports hardship fund going to GAA

A DUP MLA has expressed concern over a reported 40% of a hardship fund for sports clubs going to the GAA.

The Hardship Fund for Sport was launched by the Department for Communities to support sports clubs and organisations amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The £500,000 fund distributes grants of up to £2,000 to help organisations meet essential overheads and maintain their facilities during lockdown.

However high demand saw the fund close to new applications within days.

DUP MLA Jonathan Buckley said he had “considerable concern” with allocations so far, claiming that 40% of the funding has been awarded to the GAA.

He claimed this “is grossly weighted”, and asked what consultation had been held with sports organisations and what consideration had been given to equality across sporting sectors.

Communities minister Deirdre Hargey responded, saying the demand had been unprecedented.

“It’s not enough money to meet the need and obviously we don’t have enough money to meet all of the need that is out there, but we did move quick with Sport NI and also the Sports Forum, which represents a variety of sports organisations in terms of the delivery of this fund,” she said.

“That scheme was launched, everyone got the same information at the same time… obviously the demand has been unprecedented, we had to suspend it because we just need to look at assessing the applications that are in and we will see what money can be made available.

“I take no role in terms of the assessments of applications.”

In response to a question from Alliance MLA Chris Lyttle, Ms Hargey added she would like to get the hardship fund “started again as soon as possible if I can get the money available to me”.

40% going to the GAA sounds about right to me. Unionists just have a hard time understanding how popular the GAA is. Maybe they think GAA matches are like those Irish League matches that are attended by two men and a dog.

Now look at participation numbers...
They would be the wrong numbers to look at. Walking/running would be extremely popular but the vast majority aren't in actual clubs with premises. I'd be surprised if many grants were applied for from walking clubs. 5-a-side counts as participating in soccer etc.
Baile Brigin has already been informed on numerous occasions that when it comes to  state support for sport,  participation in organised sports is the premium,  sport organised in a  membership club based scenario that is constituted. If this germane information does manage to enter into one ear, it exits the other immediately. BB then resorts to repeating the default mantra with Animal Farm gusto , 'what about the participation figures ' as he/she parrots the old 5 a side participation argument, the lunchtime kickabouts with jumpers for goal posts.

Have you a point here? If the only soccer mentioned is the IL, then the only GAA in question should be the championship.

Its a very moot point to simy ignore that more people play soccer, both formally and informally than gaelic games. Club  membership numbers are just one metric, and don't regularly translate into playing numbers.

In this instance there is no story as roughly the same application success rate was seen across all sports.
It has zero relevance to this discussion.

Example:
If my GAA club (with their own premises) submit a request for funding, the likelihood is that of those on the committee 0 play/participate in Gaelic games any longer, 3 or 4 of them might play indoor soccer or go walking/running (neither with a club owning premises) and therefore count towards participation numbers for those sports.

But they participate in those sports. They don't participate in gaelic games in terms of playing. So how else do you count them?

But you are right in this specific funding round.
I haven't mentioned counting participation in any other way. Only that it's irrelevant when it comes to funding, which you seem to have accepted.

Its not irrelevant to funding. Quite the opposite.

I bet your formula for funding will ensure the GAA get most of it...

oakleaflad

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2020, 03:42:51 PM »
More whinging:

Quote
DUP MLA expresses ‘considerable concern' over sports hardship fund going to GAA

A DUP MLA has expressed concern over a reported 40% of a hardship fund for sports clubs going to the GAA.

The Hardship Fund for Sport was launched by the Department for Communities to support sports clubs and organisations amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The £500,000 fund distributes grants of up to £2,000 to help organisations meet essential overheads and maintain their facilities during lockdown.

However high demand saw the fund close to new applications within days.

DUP MLA Jonathan Buckley said he had “considerable concern” with allocations so far, claiming that 40% of the funding has been awarded to the GAA.

He claimed this “is grossly weighted”, and asked what consultation had been held with sports organisations and what consideration had been given to equality across sporting sectors.

Communities minister Deirdre Hargey responded, saying the demand had been unprecedented.

“It’s not enough money to meet the need and obviously we don’t have enough money to meet all of the need that is out there, but we did move quick with Sport NI and also the Sports Forum, which represents a variety of sports organisations in terms of the delivery of this fund,” she said.

“That scheme was launched, everyone got the same information at the same time… obviously the demand has been unprecedented, we had to suspend it because we just need to look at assessing the applications that are in and we will see what money can be made available.

“I take no role in terms of the assessments of applications.”

In response to a question from Alliance MLA Chris Lyttle, Ms Hargey added she would like to get the hardship fund “started again as soon as possible if I can get the money available to me”.

40% going to the GAA sounds about right to me. Unionists just have a hard time understanding how popular the GAA is. Maybe they think GAA matches are like those Irish League matches that are attended by two men and a dog.

Now look at participation numbers...
They would be the wrong numbers to look at. Walking/running would be extremely popular but the vast majority aren't in actual clubs with premises. I'd be surprised if many grants were applied for from walking clubs. 5-a-side counts as participating in soccer etc.
Baile Brigin has already been informed on numerous occasions that when it comes to  state support for sport,  participation in organised sports is the premium,  sport organised in a  membership club based scenario that is constituted. If this germane information does manage to enter into one ear, it exits the other immediately. BB then resorts to repeating the default mantra with Animal Farm gusto , 'what about the participation figures ' as he/she parrots the old 5 a side participation argument, the lunchtime kickabouts with jumpers for goal posts.

Have you a point here? If the only soccer mentioned is the IL, then the only GAA in question should be the championship.

Its a very moot point to simy ignore that more people play soccer, both formally and informally than gaelic games. Club  membership numbers are just one metric, and don't regularly translate into playing numbers.

In this instance there is no story as roughly the same application success rate was seen across all sports.
It has zero relevance to this discussion.

Example:
If my GAA club (with their own premises) submit a request for funding, the likelihood is that of those on the committee 0 play/participate in Gaelic games any longer, 3 or 4 of them might play indoor soccer or go walking/running (neither with a club owning premises) and therefore count towards participation numbers for those sports.

But they participate in those sports. They don't participate in gaelic games in terms of playing. So how else do you count them?

But you are right in this specific funding round.
I haven't mentioned counting participation in any other way. Only that it's irrelevant when it comes to funding, which you seem to have accepted.

Its not irrelevant to funding. Quite the opposite.

I bet your formula for funding will ensure the GAA get most of it...
You're going off on tangents here. I don't have a formula. I don't have an alternative way of counting people. There are specific rules regarding funding and participation numbers are irrelevant when it comes to these requests. I've already given a perfectly valid example as to how.

What is this highlighted statement about too? You're making huge presumptions about me for some reason. I really don't get it. I've played multiple sports by the way, not that it should matter.

thewobbler

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2020, 04:15:10 PM »
He refuses to accept that the majority of soccer teams in NI are unconstituted, have no grounds, no members, and in a lot of cases, no bank account.  Which means that these ones are ineligible for any public grant.

He is is also unwilling to accept that unless a club owns property (or has a long term lease) then it is immediately ruled out of all capital grants (which is obviously where the majority of funding lies).

All in all there’s only 40-odd soccer clubs in NI that can qualify for a capital grant, only 40-odd rugby clubs in NI that can qualify for a capital grant, but some 400-odd GAA clubs that can legally qualify for a capital grant.

The disparity should, if an  uh hung, be greater

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2020, 04:22:05 PM »
He refuses to accept that the majority of soccer teams in NI are unconstituted, have no grounds, no members, and in a lot of cases, no bank account.  Which means that these ones are ineligible for any public grant.

He is is also unwilling to accept that unless a club owns property (or has a long term lease) then it is immediately ruled out of all capital grants (which is obviously where the majority of funding lies).

All in all there’s only 40-odd soccer clubs in NI that can qualify for a capital grant, only 40-odd rugby clubs in NI that can qualify for a capital grant, but some 400-odd GAA clubs that can legally qualify for a capital grant.

The disparity should, if an  uh hung, be greater

This is headbanger stuff. There are 35 clubs in the semi pro leagues. So only 5 other clubs in the whole of the north?

The majority? I won't waste bandwith asking for backup on this nonsense.


thewobbler

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2020, 06:22:23 PM »
My apologies I meant to write 90-odd for soccer clubs with a ground. A typo.

Which means there are over 3 times as many GAA clubs eligible for capital grants than rugby and soccer combined.

——

The majority of soccer teams in NI are junior soccer teams and are not constituted. They are pub teams, so to speak, and rely on council facilities to host their games. It’s a perfectly good hobby in my book. But these teams will never be eligible for grants unless they do the due diligence.

Main Street

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2020, 10:43:47 PM »
My apologies I meant to write 90-odd for soccer clubs with a ground. A typo.

Which means there are over 3 times as many GAA clubs eligible for capital grants than rugby and soccer combined.

——

The majority of soccer teams in NI are junior soccer teams and are not constituted. They are pub teams, so to speak, and rely on council facilities to host their games. It’s a perfectly good hobby in my book. But these teams will never be eligible for grants unless they do the due diligence.

It's useless,  BB2 hasn't the mental capacity to tell the difference between  a 5-a-side-soccer kickabout in the park (defined in his head as sporting participants)  and a properly constituted sports club with club infrastructure,  members, organised coaching and competition.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 11:00:39 PM by Main Street »

Rossfan

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2020, 11:52:42 PM »
BB starts ends and middles with "Soccer good Gah bad"
Still Connacht Champions

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2020, 12:42:40 AM »
My apologies I meant to write 90-odd for soccer clubs with a ground. A typo.

Which means there are over 3 times as many GAA clubs eligible for capital grants than rugby and soccer combined.

——

The majority of soccer teams in NI are junior soccer teams and are not constituted. They are pub teams, so to speak, and rely on council facilities to host their games. It’s a perfectly good hobby in my book. But these teams will never be eligible for grants unless they do the due diligence.

It wasn't a typo. It was a lie.

What on earth does 'non constituted' mean?

thewobbler

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2020, 08:06:43 AM »
EG I’d estimate there’s 300 GAA clubs in the wee six.

There would be maybe 40-45 rugby clubs in same position. I’d harbour a guess there’s at most twice that in soccer (who have their own grounds, not a council arrangement).

So there should be roughly 3 GAA applications for every soccer and rugby combined. And all things considered, a grant award ratio of 3:1.

But that doesn’t take into account how embedded GAA clubs are in their communities. Soccer and rugby just don’t have the same foothold on local volunteers as the GAA does. To undertake any infrastructure project - even if it’s all grant funded - you need a group of members who are absolutely driven to make it succeed. This is where the raw statistical bias is firmly again bumped up by culture.


Yeah BB you’re right. I suggested 90 a few weeks ago. But this time couldn’t have been a typo.

—-

A constituted club is one that sets the basic rules in place that then require the appointment of a committee, setting of membership fees and levels, management of a bank account, publication of annual accounts, and any peculiars related to the sport(s) they compete in.

It stops Johnny taking his ball and going home.

And being a constituted organisation with a few years of bank accounts is the first step in every grant application, to stop same Johnny pocketing the cash and going home early.

Surely surely surely this makes sense to you?

Actually I’m guessing it doesn’t. It’s clear from your posts on this forum that you’ve never volunteered for anything in your life. You’re one of those lads that believes great things happen by shaking fairy trees.

Main Street

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2020, 09:35:22 AM »
My apologies I meant to write 90-odd for soccer clubs with a ground. A typo.

Which means there are over 3 times as many GAA clubs eligible for capital grants than rugby and soccer combined.

——

The majority of soccer teams in NI are junior soccer teams and are not constituted. They are pub teams, so to speak, and rely on council facilities to host their games. It’s a perfectly good hobby in my book. But these teams will never be eligible for grants unless they do the due diligence.

It wasn't a typo. It was a lie.

What on earth does 'non constituted' mean?
Wilful stupidity persistance,
 little doubt - enhanced by a serious alcohol abuse issue.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2020, 09:58:08 AM »
EG I’d estimate there’s 300 GAA clubs in the wee six.

There would be maybe 40-45 rugby clubs in same position. I’d harbour a guess there’s at most twice that in soccer (who have their own grounds, not a council arrangement).

So there should be roughly 3 GAA applications for every soccer and rugby combined. And all things considered, a grant award ratio of 3:1.

But that doesn’t take into account how embedded GAA clubs are in their communities. Soccer and rugby just don’t have the same foothold on local volunteers as the GAA does. To undertake any infrastructure project - even if it’s all grant funded - you need a group of members who are absolutely driven to make it succeed. This is where the raw statistical bias is firmly again bumped up by culture.


Yeah BB you’re right. I suggested 90 a few weeks ago. But this time couldn’t have been a typo.

—-

A constituted club is one that sets the basic rules in place that then require the appointment of a committee, setting of membership fees and levels, management of a bank account, publication of annual accounts, and any peculiars related to the sport(s) they compete in.

It stops Johnny taking his ball and going home.

And being a constituted organisation with a few years of bank accounts is the first step in every grant application, to stop same Johnny pocketing the cash and going home early.

Surely surely surely this makes sense to you?

Actually I’m guessing it doesn’t. It’s clear from your posts on this forum that you’ve never volunteered for anything in your life. You’re one of those lads that believes great things happen by shaking fairy trees.

And yoi are suggesting the majority of soccer clubs on the 6 have none of the above?

The sad thing is you bkelieve this

johnnycool

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2020, 10:07:11 AM »
EG I’d estimate there’s 300 GAA clubs in the wee six.

There would be maybe 40-45 rugby clubs in same position. I’d harbour a guess there’s at most twice that in soccer (who have their own grounds, not a council arrangement).

So there should be roughly 3 GAA applications for every soccer and rugby combined. And all things considered, a grant award ratio of 3:1.

But that doesn’t take into account how embedded GAA clubs are in their communities. Soccer and rugby just don’t have the same foothold on local volunteers as the GAA does. To undertake any infrastructure project - even if it’s all grant funded - you need a group of members who are absolutely driven to make it succeed. This is where the raw statistical bias is firmly again bumped up by culture.


Yeah BB you’re right. I suggested 90 a few weeks ago. But this time couldn’t have been a typo.

—-

A constituted club is one that sets the basic rules in place that then require the appointment of a committee, setting of membership fees and levels, management of a bank account, publication of annual accounts, and any peculiars related to the sport(s) they compete in.

It stops Johnny taking his ball and going home.

And being a constituted organisation with a few years of bank accounts is the first step in every grant application, to stop same Johnny pocketing the cash and going home early.

Surely surely surely this makes sense to you?

Actually I’m guessing it doesn’t. It’s clear from your posts on this forum that you’ve never volunteered for anything in your life. You’re one of those lads that believes great things happen by shaking fairy trees.

And yoi are suggesting the majority of soccer clubs on the 6 have none of the above?

The sad thing is you bkelieve this

they might have some form of organised committee, affiliated to the IFA or whoever but when it comes to Capital Grants a very large amount of them won't have the deeds to a property they can call their own.

The kindness of the local councils and us rates payers has taken that burden from them so they can't complain when the very system that keeps them viable works against them for various other funding sources.

One of our ballscreens blew down two winters ago, do you think North Down and Ard Borough Council arrived the following morning to fix it?

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2020, 10:50:28 AM »
EG I’d estimate there’s 300 GAA clubs in the wee six.

There would be maybe 40-45 rugby clubs in same position. I’d harbour a guess there’s at most twice that in soccer (who have their own grounds, not a council arrangement).

So there should be roughly 3 GAA applications for every soccer and rugby combined. And all things considered, a grant award ratio of 3:1.

But that doesn’t take into account how embedded GAA clubs are in their communities. Soccer and rugby just don’t have the same foothold on local volunteers as the GAA does. To undertake any infrastructure project - even if it’s all grant funded - you need a group of members who are absolutely driven to make it succeed. This is where the raw statistical bias is firmly again bumped up by culture.


Yeah BB you’re right. I suggested 90 a few weeks ago. But this time couldn’t have been a typo.

—-

A constituted club is one that sets the basic rules in place that then require the appointment of a committee, setting of membership fees and levels, management of a bank account, publication of annual accounts, and any peculiars related to the sport(s) they compete in.

It stops Johnny taking his ball and going home.

And being a constituted organisation with a few years of bank accounts is the first step in every grant application, to stop same Johnny pocketing the cash and going home early.

Surely surely surely this makes sense to you?

Actually I’m guessing it doesn’t. It’s clear from your posts on this forum that you’ve never volunteered for anything in your life. You’re one of those lads that believes great things happen by shaking fairy trees.

And yoi are suggesting the majority of soccer clubs on the 6 have none of the above?

The sad thing is you bkelieve this

they might have some form of organised committee, affiliated to the IFA or whoever but when it comes to Capital Grants a very large amount of them won't have the deeds to a property they can call their own.

The kindness of the local councils and us rates payers has taken that burden from them so they can't complain when the very system that keeps them viable works against them for various other funding sources.

One of our ballscreens blew down two winters ago, do you think North Down and Ard Borough Council arrived the following morning to fix it?

Thats not what he said. He claimed the majority of soccer clubs in the 6 aren't affiliated to leagues, don't register players, aren't insured and whatnot. Thats bigoted bollocks.

I repeat, I agree that the GAA getting the lions share of this funding process is correct. But claiming only 40 soccer clubs own their own premises is bonkers and its interesting that pulling that blatent lie marks one as a hun.

thewobbler

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2020, 11:05:27 AM »
I’ve clarified 90 twice.

And now you’re continuing to make suppositions about what I’m saying.

——/

1. Junior soccer clubs do not need a constitution or even a bank account to join a local soccer league.

2. They do need to appoint a chairman, secretary and a first team manager for matters of correspondence and discipline, but there is no requirement for these appointments to be made by consistent or transparent means.

3. It is the actual regional junior soccer league that requires a constitution, before they can be IFA affiliated.

4. As a result, when you move past intermediate and well-established top junior leagues, teams literally come and go; close and reform, close forever, rebadge, relocate on an annual basis. There is no need to “dissolve” a club that doesn’t have a bank account, a constitution, property or trustees, so it happens at the drop of a hat.

5. Well-established clubs with their own juvenile programmes tend to have their own grounds, or a defined agreement with local councils for designated use of facilities. These would number less than 100 in the six counties.


Players are of course registered - but that’s not the same thing as being a paid-up member of a constituted club.

As for insurance. If you really believe that a club without a bank balance is willing or capable of insuring players who represent them, then you’ve lost it. Many junior players have their own personal insurance. Many of the more established junior clubs will have some insurance in place. 


Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Sports Funding in NI
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2020, 11:31:39 AM »
This is quite literally the most contradictory self serving nonsense I have ever seen.

You are more confused than scoobie doo. They do but they don't but they do.