Author Topic: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?  (Read 899 times)

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 02:37:31 PM »

Is there any real reason for adult league and championships to take more than 4 odd months in club or intercounty.

Because clubs, players and supporters will on balance prefer a longer season and don't particularly want all activity shunted into a third of the year.

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Our summer is in April and May these years if itís weather we are talking about.

We're not talking about weather.

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All intercounty grounds have autumn winter lighting.

No they don't although many do.

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This all Ireland is a litmus test for the way forward.

God help us if it is, with key games played in frost, muck, hail and dark.
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My approach is based on my belief that intercounty players want to play 8 months or club and county and that club players would be happy to play 16-20 games a year
.

You won't get 16-20 games for every club player if you confine their season to 4 months.
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If the Gaa Chooses to split club and county then go ahead make that call and see what the reaction is.
I thought you wanted to do precisely that, by splitting the season in two?
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Otherwise sort the fixtures. Whatís the croke park wage bill and yet this is still not sorted. Do your job!

Arranging club fixtures is the job of for county boards. It has nothing directly to do with Croke Park. Otherwise I think you're optimistic if you think that a lad from Kilkenny or a woman from Cavan is going to be able to sort out the ins and outs of fixtures in Cork with hundreds of clubs, divisional teams, dual codes and huge geographical distances within the county.

thewobbler

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 02:41:26 PM »
The reasons why county seasons historically took so long:

1. It allowed club fixtures to be played between county games.

2. With a straight knockout system, 2/3rds of all players were back with their clubs by mid June full time.

3. Staggering them at one per weekend allowed spectators to watch all games in a province.


óó-

Problem being that because no.2 changed with the back door, the arse fell out of no.1 (managers wanted to keep players intact before qualifiers, during qualifiers etc), and also fell out of no.3 (provincials donít have the same resonance without an all-at-stake undercurrent).

Itís taken top brass some 20 years to realise they donít need all this time any more; heads filled with romantic nonsense like ď3rd Sunday in SeptemberĒ and absolute horseshit from paid-by-the-week county managers demanding lengthy breaks between games, and crying furiously at the the thoughts of an end-on-the-same-day policy.

óó-

The solution isnít overly complicated from here.

County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Meanwhile, club leagues start in April and only really pick up intensity (games per week) in the longer nights of June, which in 24+ counties should see a full squad of players available from the start of June, and in 30 counties, from the end of June.

Club Championships are August and September. Provincial clubs October. All Ireland clubs November.

Sigerson is also played in November. You canít Sigerson if youíre in an AI club semi, but apart from that you can concentrate on it.


óóó

All of this is dependent on clubs playing league fixtures in April and May and some of June without county players.

Once thatís agreed, it makes sense for top brass to compress the inter county season. The same money is made, only quicker. County team costs are more easily managed. The club game wins.


This is surely not a difficult proposition to implement.

But when nonsensical daydreamers like The CPA are around, who claim to represent players but whose stance effectively denies so many of them summer football, itís going to be tough.

Again, wise the f**k up you ones in the CPA.


« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 02:45:02 PM by thewobbler »

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 02:48:12 PM »
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 02:52:43 PM by five points »

thewobbler

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 03:06:04 PM »
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.

Iím not sure what youíre getting at here.

If our worry is that some county standard players will happily jettison their clubs when they donít have county commitments, then why are the 98% putting their seasons on hold to wait for them anyway?

rrhf

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 03:07:47 PM »

Is there any real reason for adult league and championships to take more than 4 odd months in club or intercounty.

Because clubs, players and supporters will on balance prefer a longer season and don't particularly want all activity shunted into a third of the year.

Quote
Our summer is in April and May these years if itís weather we are talking about.

We're not talking about weather.
Well holiday season through July August is not to be ignored surely. All are amateurs.

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All intercounty grounds have autumn winter lighting.

No they don't although many do.
Yes most do. Iím sure a solution can be found..

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This all Ireland is a litmus test for the way forward.

God help us if it is, with key games played in frost, muck, hail and dark.

So Then it is weather we are emotivating about.

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My approach is based on my belief that intercounty players want to play 8 months or club and county and that club players would be happy to play 16-20 games a year
.

You won't get 16-20 games for every club player if you confine their season to 4 months. The key is the separation almost 4 months of in between can be looked at. May solve the problem to 90-95 percent and Iím happy with that.
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If the Gaa Chooses to split club and county then go ahead make that call and see what the reaction is.
I thought you wanted to do precisely that, by splitting the season in two?
Sorry my bad. My point is that players will play for both club and county. Key is the shutdown of the county season in terms of group training etc.  Poorly articulated!!
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Otherwise sort the fixtures. Whatís the croke park wage bill and yet this is still not sorted. Do your job!

Arranging club fixtures is the job of for county boards. It has nothing directly to do with Croke Park. Otherwise I think you're optimistic if you think that a lad from Kilkenny or a woman from Cavan is going to be able to sort out the ins and outs of fixtures in Cork with hundreds of clubs, divisional teams, dual codes and huge geographical distances within the county.
Precisely Change the system then. If itís  my job to do that and Iím paid to do that, thatís what I need to do. The framework and overall structure is mastered With oversight by croke Park otherwise life is a free for all. The county boards deliver it to their capabilities. Everything will be ok.

rrhf

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 03:13:18 PM »
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
Surely in the first place that is a minority decision. More importantly I donít think itís in the gaa remit to stop amateur players making their own life calls. We really need to be careful with the level of control over young people we want to enforce by fixture making. That person who wants to see the world should not be stopped so therefore beyond our remit. Everyone has the right to live their life in an amateur game.

rrhf

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 03:15:02 PM »
Is there still a desire to control the minds of people In Ireland behind some of these views?

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 03:15:31 PM »
Precisely Change the system then. If itís  my job to do that and Iím paid to do that, thatís what I need to do. The framework and overall structure is mastered With oversight by croke Park otherwise life is a free for all. The county boards deliver it to their capabilities. Everything will be ok.

Nobody in Croke Park is paid to arrange club fixtures though, because the situation in each county is different. That's why I mentioned Cork. Very few other counties have a club setup remotely similar to theirs and for that reason most outsiders will be at a total loss devising anything that suits them.

And club fixture planning is hardly a free-for-all once each county has a CCC appointed by the clubs.

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 03:17:38 PM »
Is there still a desire to control the minds of people In Ireland behind some of these views?

Projection? You're the guy who wants to strip the clubs in each county of the control they currently exercise to self-determine their own fixtures.

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2020, 03:20:08 PM »
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
Surely in the first place that is a minority decision. More importantly I donít think itís in the gaa remit to stop amateur players making their own life calls. We really need to be careful with the level of control over young people we want to enforce by fixture making. That person who wants to see the world should not be stopped so therefore beyond our remit. Everyone has the right to live their life in an amateur game.

Nobody is stopping anyone from doing anything but by forcing most counties out of the championships before the school holidays, you are making it far more attractive for county players to disappear for the summer. Which is great for them but less so for their clubs.

thewobbler

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2020, 03:32:30 PM »
So if Iím reading you right here, you think it might be better for every single club player to endure patchwork, ad hoc seasons, as the byproduct of this mess is that it is sometimes more difficult for a tiny percentage of players to step out completely?

I just donít get that.

rrhf

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2020, 03:34:49 PM »
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2020, 03:51:09 PM »
So if Iím reading you right here, you think it might be better for every single club player to endure patchwork, ad hoc seasons, as the byproduct of this mess is that it is sometimes more difficult for a tiny percentage of players to step out completely?

I just donít get that.

Who's enduring anything?
If your county operates to a master fixtures plan, why is your season patchwork and ad hoc? If it doesn't, why not?
Is it a mess at all?

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 03:53:07 PM »
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.

You do realise that county CCCs are run by volunteers?

five points

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Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2020, 03:55:40 PM »
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.

Iím not sure what youíre getting at here.

If our worry is that some county standard players will happily jettison their clubs when they donít have county commitments, then why are the 98% putting their seasons on hold to wait for them anyway?
It's already happening and it's a key reason why clubs vote for the business end of championships to start only when the summer is over.