Author Topic: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21  (Read 6774 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year. 
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

marty34

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2020, 08:57:02 AM »
Gearoid Hegarty seems to have perfected those flick backhand handpasses that look a bit like a New Zealand rugby offload, Cian Lynch is a dab hand at them as well

I suppose it was about time some innovation was brought to the handpass

My impression is that as well as being lighter yet bigger bossed, hurleys are generally a bit shorter than they used to be, they couldn't be otherwise, difficult to get away with a big wide swing these days, that's why John Mulhall didn't make it with the Kilkenny senior team, if you look at the technique from the old All-Ireland finals from the 50s and 60s some of the technique looks comical, lads holding the hurley by the very tip of the handle and big wide swings

I thought he didn't play again after his singing at the homecoming??

marty34

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2020, 09:01:54 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.

Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.

Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?

hardstation

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2020, 09:14:17 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.

Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.

Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
I actually thought that too. However, about 2 puckouts later the keeper did exactly the same thing and wasnít pulled so maybe he was warned and just didnít give a shite.


marty34

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2020, 09:19:33 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.

Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.

Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
I actually thought that too. However, about 2 puckouts later the keeper did exactly the same thing and wasnít pulled so maybe he was warned and just didnít give a shite.

The one on which he was pulled up on was miminal in fairnes, going by the camera angle behind the goals.

Maybe it's a new directive this year.

Tv camera seemed to be in a different place also.  Seemed a bit lower.  Maybe they could do it as no crowds in so they had more options.

didlyi

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2020, 09:33:15 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.


Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2020, 11:07:00 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.

Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.

Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
I actually thought that too. However, about 2 puckouts later the keeper did exactly the same thing and wasnít pulled so maybe he was warned and just didnít give a shite.

The one on which he was pulled up on was miminal in fairnes, going by the camera angle behind the goals.

Maybe it's a new directive this year.

Tv camera seemed to be in a different place also.  Seemed a bit lower.  Maybe they could do it as no crowds in so they had more options.

The decision was by the umpire when he stepped to the side and raised his right arm, as a signal to the ref that he had stepped outside the box, it was minimal but he probably was warned, when called in that time the ref didn't talk to the keeper at all. and in the second half he stepped outside a few more times with no hop ball awarded ..

Why he had to do that when all he had to do was speak into the mic I don't know, its not really the umpires job to call that I don't think, so bringing attention to it may work against the ref

 Some refs have their thing, the ref refused to have quick ball from puck outs until he was ready, there is no rule to wait on the ref to blow for a puck out, once the ball goes wide and as long as the players are outside the 21 the keeper can puck it out
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

johnnycool

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2020, 11:11:36 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.


Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.

IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.

I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.

Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.

Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.

It's modern hurling as we know it.



Milltown Row2

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2020, 11:23:55 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.


Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.

IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.

I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.

Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.

Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.

It's modern hurling as we know it.

So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?

You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score!  I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?

Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.

There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.

Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

johnnycool

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2020, 11:39:25 AM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.


Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.

IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.

I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.

Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.

Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.

It's modern hurling as we know it.

So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?

You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score!  I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?

Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.

There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.

Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar

Who mentioned heavier?

I'd be concerned that the contested ball is totally eradicated from hurling and we start getting the damp squip we saw last Sunday afternoon when it gets into the realms of basketball where a score is almost expected every possession and turn overs are the exception rather than the rule.

I know that is maybe an exaggeration but we're going down that track IMO.

CitySlicker11

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2020, 12:07:21 PM »
Was last Sunday not just a case of a far superior team imposing their dominance? Whether that was down to absentees or Limericks overall game is another question. Looking forward to a few more tighter contests this weekend.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2020, 12:08:09 PM »
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.

If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then itís speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.

If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then itís more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..

The OíConnor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 thatís dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.

Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20ís) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.

In five years thereíll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.


Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.

IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.

I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.

Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.

Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.

It's modern hurling as we know it.

So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?

You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score!  I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?

Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.

There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.

Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar

Who mentioned heavier?

I'd be concerned that the contested ball is totally eradicated from hurling and we start getting the damp squip we saw last Sunday afternoon when it gets into the realms of basketball where a score is almost expected every possession and turn overs are the exception rather than the rule.

I know that is maybe an exaggeration but we're going down that track IMO.

Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?

The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.

Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides

Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides

Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

marty34

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2020, 12:09:45 PM »
I say keep hurling the way it is.

Probably on Sunday was no real pressure on Limerick's shooters. Clare blocked up the middle third and Limerick just shot over that with precision.  They said, ok you block the middle and we'll shoot points all game long. Your choice!

I can't believe, after KK V Tipp shootout in 2014, that people want less scores etc. Madness.

The game evloves, that's life. In 20 years time, it'll have moved on again.  When you look back at TG4's golden era, the hurling is poor, compared to the modern era.  Compare that at the time with hurling 20 years before that, then the same is true. That's the evolution of the game.

Years ago everything in the air was pulled on, nowadays it's a possession based game i.e. clean catches and own the ball.  The skill level, imo, is far higher nowadays as everything is done at such a high speed.

In GAA, people want rule changes every year just for the sake of it.

Hurling is great again!!

didlyi

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2020, 02:52:34 PM »

[/quote]

Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?

The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.

Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides

Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides
[/quote]

On the contrary, the rucks are being caused because of the frenzy to get the ball into the hand....Once its in the hand then the pop handpass out ends the ruck. If you couldn't handpass the ball out of a ruck there probably wouldn't be a ruck in the first place as players would be better off scooping it out or playing it along the ground out of a ruck as they used to do before.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2020, 03:34:00 PM »


Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?

The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.

Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides

Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides
[/quote]

On the contrary, the rucks are being caused because of the frenzy to get the ball into the hand....Once its in the hand then the pop handpass out ends the ruck. If you couldn't handpass the ball out of a ruck there probably wouldn't be a ruck in the first place as players would be better off scooping it out or playing it along the ground out of a ruck as they used to do before.
[/quote]

Yes hand passes are delivered from rucks that's natural, some were saying it's basketball type hurling and that's not the case.. Plenty balls won and played back or across the pitch

Possession is key in all these sports now, hold the ball play it to the best man in space to score.. 50/50 balls have no place in the game at that level, a defenders dream, even for a wee man like me a hopeful ball into defense was always better than the short cross field balls that came my way (Johhnycool's club tortured me with it back in the day)

In my 40 years of watching hurling the developments have always been for the better, bar that unpredictable ball that was made years ago. the dropping of the handpass goal was a must, what were they thinking with that one!?

Other than the forced issues with the penalty takers taking 15 yards to smack the ball, its mostly stayed true to the sport
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)