Author Topic: Safe Return for Gaelic Games  (Read 4333 times)

Itchy

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2020, 12:23:55 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are theyíve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after theyíve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it Iím finding difficult to argue with. I donít like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

Itchy

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2020, 12:27:04 PM »
Itchy,

Rules, whatever you want to call them.

The lockdown was largely a success because the population in general bought into the sense of ďwe are in this togetherĒ.

Once (in the UK) there became a hierarchical system depending on what you do for living, and how much you like to accept or test the rules, the lockdown pretty much went out the window. Monkey see, monkey do.

What the GAA is attempting to do here is to place a countrywide code of conduct on its clubs and membership. They will have been required to do something along these lines by the Irish Govt, as is every sporting body looking to return to action.

 You might think itís OTT. But if you leave room for interpretation, the number of clubs with a very liberal interpretation will increase exponentially during July. At which point we might as well have dived straight into competitive action in front of crowds.

The bit in bold is hear say. In fact I'd go as far a to say the Irish Government and the GAA didnt even talk to each other last week prior to Leo Varadkar's annoucement. If they had surely they would have had alignment on the most simple definition of how many people could train together (GAA say 10, Irish Government say 15). Yes I am sure there is expectations that sporting bodies to their bit but what they are proposing is way beyond was could be reasonably expected.

thewobbler

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2020, 12:44:17 PM »
Itchy just last week the GUI rolled back on an original pledge to permit member golf competitions in phase 2.

Golfers and golf clubs united in disgust.

The only rationale anyone can come up with for this is that the other sporting bodies in Ireland were unhappy that competitive golf would take place before other sports were permitted to train.


I would think thereís more discussions going on behind the scenes than youíre imagining. There is a minister for sport for a reason.

(By the way this doesnít mean that everyone is in agreement in those meetings, and there arenít forces working against each other from time to time)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 12:47:11 PM by thewobbler »

StephenC

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2020, 01:13:24 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are theyíve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after theyíve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it Iím finding difficult to argue with. I donít like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

That's the 2nd time you've stated this. In my experience most businesses are taking very strict measures to deal with 1. making sure people stay away if they are symptomatic (including temperature checking) 2. having the ability to support contact tracing if a case arose 3. promoting good hygiene behaviours

Let's also admit that there is a legal aspect to this too. There is going to be a tsunami of compensation claims globally from people who contracted the virus, built around the fact that the business/organisation didn't take appropriate steps to protect them. The GAA are trying to cover themselves.

Taylor

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2020, 01:24:26 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are theyíve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after theyíve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it Iím finding difficult to argue with. I donít like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

That's the 2nd time you've stated this. In my experience most businesses are taking very strict measures to deal with 1. making sure people stay away if they are symptomatic (including temperature checking) 2. having the ability to support contact tracing if a case arose 3. promoting good hygiene behaviours

Let's also admit that there is a legal aspect to this too. There is going to be a tsunami of compensation claims globally from people who contracted the virus, built around the fact that the business/organisation didn't take appropriate steps to protect them. The GAA are trying to cover themselves.

And putting the onus on who?

The clubs  ::)

thewobbler

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2020, 01:30:07 PM »
Actually itís the individual.

If a GAA club follows these measures, the only way a virus spreads on GAA grounds is if either a) the individual lies on their attendance sheet, b) the individual is carrying covid with no obvious signs, as proven by the signature on their attendance sheet. In either case, the Association would not be liable.

Taylor

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2020, 01:44:51 PM »
Actually itís the individual.

If a GAA club follows these measures, the only way a virus spreads on GAA grounds is if either a) the individual lies on their attendance sheet, b) the individual is carrying covid with no obvious signs, as proven by the signature on their attendance sheet. In either case, the Association would not be liable.

But the GAA are making it incredibly difficult for volunteers to have to carry out all of these actions - by the way I dont know the solution but it does feel that the GAA are making it incredibly stringent and saying do all of this - and if you fail on any of these its you the cllub who are liable - not us

StephenC

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2020, 01:52:33 PM »
Actually itís the individual.

If a GAA club follows these measures, the only way a virus spreads on GAA grounds is if either a) the individual lies on their attendance sheet, b) the individual is carrying covid with no obvious signs, as proven by the signature on their attendance sheet. In either case, the Association would not be liable.

But the GAA are making it incredibly difficult for volunteers to have to carry out all of these actions - by the way I dont know the solution but it does feel that the GAA are making it incredibly stringent and saying do all of this - and if you fail on any of these its you the cllub who are liable - not us

That's not it at all. If a club carries out these steps, then the individual is responsible, as they cannot claim that the club didn't take reasonable measures to prevent the spread.

Itchy

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2020, 02:04:19 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are theyíve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after theyíve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it Iím finding difficult to argue with. I donít like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

That's the 2nd time you've stated this. In my experience most businesses are taking very strict measures to deal with 1. making sure people stay away if they are symptomatic (including temperature checking) 2. having the ability to support contact tracing if a case arose 3. promoting good hygiene behaviours

Let's also admit that there is a legal aspect to this too. There is going to be a tsunami of compensation claims globally from people who contracted the virus, built around the fact that the business/organisation didn't take appropriate steps to protect them. The GAA are trying to cover themselves.

It may be the 2nd time but it is true regarding temperature checks. The vast vast vast majority of businesses are not doing them, mostly because it give you no data worth talking about. If you dont believe me take a walk through your local town and do a survey on how many businesses are checking your temperature. As i have said to you before I work in a large Pharma company, 1000+ people today. We talk to all the other factories in our region regularly. Only 1 has implemented temp checks and the reason they did it is because some people on the production floor threatened to walk out if they didnt (if you know unions you will know its pointless sometimes arguing)

What companies do is advise people to stay at home if sick, appeal to their better nature in terms of infecting others, educate people regards to social distancing. We cannot force anyone to do anything. The GAA is amazingly trying to go steps further than big pharma companies!

five points

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2020, 02:20:41 PM »
Actually itís the individual.

If a GAA club follows these measures, the only way a virus spreads on GAA grounds is if either a) the individual lies on their attendance sheet, b) the individual is carrying covid with no obvious signs, as proven by the signature on their attendance sheet. In either case, the Association would not be liable.

But the GAA are making it incredibly difficult for volunteers to have to carry out all of these actions - by the way I dont know the solution but it does feel that the GAA are making it incredibly stringent and saying do all of this - and if you fail on any of these its you the cllub who are liable - not us

That's not it at all. If a club carries out these steps, then the individual is responsible, as they cannot claim that the club didn't take reasonable measures to prevent the spread.

If the purpose of all this is to insulate the GAA from compensation claims in the event of a wave of infections among members and players, it is beyond futile. Management cannot absolve their company or organisation from vicarious liability by shoving responsibility onto underlings.

DuffleKing

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2020, 02:56:02 PM »

Lets be honest - clubs are not going to maintain this rigmarole.

Online training boxes will be ticked, hand sanitizers and signage will appear and parents / players will get the appropriate documents. Health Qs may get completed once or twice to ensure there is a buy in / understanding or requirements / paper trail but very quickly it'll be as you were.

The GAA were obviously obliged to roll out these protocols but in reality they are impractical and will get lip service.

My kids have been back at soccer this week and there is not the slightest mention of any of the steps GAA clubs are required to roll out. Drop off and pick up at a council field - that is it.

Itchy

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2020, 03:00:38 PM »

Lets be honest - clubs are not going to maintain this rigmarole.

Online training boxes will be ticked, hand sanitizers and signage will appear and parents / players will get the appropriate documents. Health Qs may get completed once or twice to ensure there is a buy in / understanding or requirements / paper trail but very quickly it'll be as you were.

The GAA were obviously obliged to roll out these protocols but in reality they are impractical and will get lip service.

My kids have been back at soccer this week and there is not the slightest mention of any of the steps GAA clubs are required to roll out. Drop off and pick up at a council field - that is it.

FAI are even worse, theyve given no guidelines yet at all.

rodney trotter

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2020, 03:59:51 PM »
The shambles left by John Delaney means they are paying the price at all levels now.  They haven't the funds to restart the Airtricity League and test players.

Rossfan

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2020, 04:06:29 PM »
Comparisons with soccer/FAI is setting a very low bar.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

DuffleKing

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Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2020, 04:15:53 PM »

In some ways. However, soccer is providing easy access to training and games and we are not.