Author Topic: John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?  (Read 7007 times)

sid waddell

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How can GAA clubs continue to honour this man?

To remove his name would not be to "erase history", as is so often and so wrongly used as a defence of the glorification of such awful historical figures.

It would be to recognise history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mitchel

Mitchel claimed that slaves in the southern United States were better cared for and fed than Irish cottiers, or industrial workers in English cities like Manchester. He was explicitly racist, saying negroes were "an innately inferior people"[21] and opining "We deny that it is a crime, or a wrong, or even a peccadillo to hold slaves, to buy slaves, to keep slaves to their work by flogging or other needful correction. We wish we had a good plantation well-stocked with healthy negroes in Alabama."[22][23] In correspondence with his good friend John Kenyon, he stated that he wanted to make the people of the US "proud and fond of [slavery] as a national institution, and advocate its extension by re-opening the trade in Negroes."[24] He claimed that slavery was inherently moral and "good in itself" and stated that he "promotes it for its own sake."[24]

He opposed the emancipation of the Jews, which he considered against the will of God.[25]

In 1857 in Knoxville, Tennessee, he founded a new paper, the Southern Citizen, to promote "the value and virtue of slavery, both for negroes and white men", advocate the reopening of the African slave trade and encourage the spread of slavery into the American West.[21] He moved the paper to Washington in 1859. When the Civil War broke out in 1861 he moved to Richmond, Virginia, the Confederate capital, to edit the powerful Richmond Enquirer.[27] As a spokesman for the cause of the South, he was the first to claim that slavery and abolition were not the cause of the conflict but simply used as a pretence.


seafoid

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How much money did he make from slavery ?
Lookit

Milltown Row2

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Was thus information not known at the time of clubs formation? Did the clubs just randomly take on these names?
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

J70

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Its definitely something that needs to discussed. He is not honoured for his views on/defence of blacks/slavery like all those figures in the southern US, but it is still part of his legacy.


sid waddell

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How much money did he make from slavery ?
I don't know. Why does it matter?

Was thus information not known at the time of clubs formation? Did the clubs just randomly take on these names?
I don't know. Why does it matter?

grounded

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One flaw with this, and it is Whataboutery!
         I would say many, if not most of the founding members of the GAA would hold many views that would be very controversial/unacceptable according to todays standards.
          Who decides?

whitey

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I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Rossfan

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At least we stopped naming clubs after Boer generals......
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

armaghniac

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The club named after him in Newry isn't much use anyway.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rossfan

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Could be a good time to get into the statue toppling business

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2020/0609/1146337-monuments-galway/
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

J70

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One flaw with this, and it is Whataboutery!
         I would say many, if not most of the founding members of the GAA would hold many views that would be very controversial/unacceptable according to todays standards.
          Who decides?

Yes, judging past figures by the standard of the present is always problematic. But in Mitchel's case there are explicit writings and pronouncements on the subject, even if he is honoured for his role in the Irish struggle against the British.

This is obviously something that is going to be a big issue across the western world. In some cases, statues will come down and places be renamed. In others, supplemental or revised descriptions/explanations might be sufficient.

Obviously something that is going to demand a lot of discussion.

general_lee

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I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Just out of curiosity how many grounds would this be? Does it apply pre-1969?
As for competitions, how many overall have offending names?
Grounds I can think of off the top of my head - Dromintee, St Teresaís?, one in Fermanagh. Any more?
Competitions - Derry intermediate? Joe Cahill u12? Any others?
Clubs? 

whitey

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I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Just out of curiosity how many grounds would this be? Does it apply pre-1969?
As for competitions, how many overall have offending names?
Grounds I can think of off the top of my head - Dromintee, St Teresaís?, one in Fermanagh. Any more?
Competitions - Derry intermediate? Joe Cahill u12? Any others?
Clubs?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/naming-of-clubs-after-fanatics-shouldn-t-be-tolerated-by-the-gaa-1.1575008

I donít think any club or ground should be named in memory of a person in case people are offended by something that person said or did in the past

Letís just call all clubs by the name of the town

hardstation

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St. Teresa offends me.


general_lee

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I also think that any GAA club (or Pitch) named after current of former members of the IRA should be renamed as a token of goodwill toward our neighbors on the other side of the divide

Just out of curiosity how many grounds would this be? Does it apply pre-1969?
As for competitions, how many overall have offending names?
Grounds I can think of off the top of my head - Dromintee, St Teresaís?, one in Fermanagh. Any more?
Competitions - Derry intermediate? Joe Cahill u12? Any others?
Clubs?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/naming-of-clubs-after-fanatics-shouldn-t-be-tolerated-by-the-gaa-1.1575008

I donít think any club or ground should be named in memory of a person in case people are offended by something that person said or did in the past

Letís just call all clubs by the name of the town

Thatís a really shitty and disingenuous article. Not that Iím necessarily against changing the rules around naming clubs, I just wonder where the buck stops? Also many towns numerous clubs.