Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate

[Tones]

Its 99.99% of the populations take JC.

Well see that public defender person in the US or Sam Smith, fair play to them, that doesn't bother me one iota but they should not be called freaks and people who use that term are very insecure in their own sexuality I find.

You lost the argument with the stupid wink.

[johnnycool]

Its 99.99% of the populations take JC.

Well see that public defender person in the US or Sam Smith, fair play to them, that doesn't bother me one iota but they should not be called freaks and people who use that term are very insecure in their own sexuality I find.

You lost the argument with the stupid wink.

I'll not sleep tonight now!

Darn.

[Tones]

Gives a chill tonight maybe get a wee hot water bottle might help.  Well done on the rational debate though.

[HokeyPokey]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

[gallsman]

Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.

[Main Street]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

[Main Street]

Calling trans women perverts in dresses does not help matters whatsoever

It's a blatant bigoted statement.

[HokeyPokey]

Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.

Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?

[HokeyPokey]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.

And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.

If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?

I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.

It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...

[tonto1888]

Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.

Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?

I am wondering the same thing. The fact she was abused has nothing to do with trans people

[imtommygunn]

She feels that the personal safety of women is being threatened in womens spaces I think is her argument.

[Tony Baloney]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.

And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.

If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?

I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.

It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...

Yet you put a long post in place prior to that.

[HokeyPokey]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.

And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.

If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?

I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.

It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...

Yet you put a long post in place prior to that.

How does that undermine my argument?

I'm arguing this whole debate has essentially been concocted and I'm trying to illustrate that. I have empathy for this tiny, most vulnerable minority of society who are mercilessly being demonised and targeted. Yes, there are issues, like anything, and like anything, they should be worked through carefully by professionals and those affected, not by angry and unreasonable people on twitter.

Society in general should be focusing its energy on the actual pressing issues, that affect everyone, like housing, health, climate change, changing demographics, the erosion of social cohesion, and so many other issues which should take priority.

I'd be interested in why you care about this issue personally, how it affects you or yours, and why it takes priority over any of the above issues for you?