Author Topic: NHL 2020  (Read 7301 times)

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2020, 06:13:42 PM »
The reality is Antrim would want to be like Laois and Westmeath at the minute, chip away and maintain 1b status. That should be our level
westmeath and carlow have been doing it with a much smaller pool of players and clubs
and virtually no big development money spend

But their location means that the clubs can get a better standard of hurling, their schools and college's are playing in a far higher grade. We are 100. or 165 miles from our Ballycastle club to a standard (Dublin) level were want to be at, Carlow Westmeath are surrounded by great hurling counties.

That makes a huge difference in fairness
I dunno. It never made much of a difference before.
Antrim have a stronger historical tradition.
Antrim should be at the level of Laois.

Antrim played a lot of years at div one back in the day, during the mid late 80’s through to the late 90’s  we possibly have recovered from the shake up of the backdoor format and while our club teams compete we haven’t pushed on at county level, schools wise we never really did much too.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25034
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2020, 06:22:04 AM »
The reality is Antrim would want to be like Laois and Westmeath at the minute, chip away and maintain 1b status. That should be our level
westmeath and carlow have been doing it with a much smaller pool of players and clubs
and virtually no big development money spend

But their location means that the clubs can get a better standard of hurling, their schools and college's are playing in a far higher grade. We are 100. or 165 miles from our Ballycastle club to a standard (Dublin) level were want to be at, Carlow Westmeath are surrounded by great hurling counties.

That makes a huge difference in fairness
I dunno. It never made much of a difference before.
Antrim have a stronger historical tradition.
Antrim should be at the level of Laois.

Antrim played a lot of years at div one back in the day, during the mid late 80’s through to the late 90’s  we possibly have recovered from the shake up of the backdoor format and while our club teams compete we haven’t pushed on at county level, schools wise we never really did much too.
I think the system now is more sympathetic to counties outside the top 9 or 10. Before they were ignored. What are Laois doing that Antrim could emulate ? It would be great to see Antrim or Down horsing a bigger team out of it in the championship.
Lookit

imtommygunn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11265
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2020, 08:34:11 AM »
Sending their clubs from a very young age to compete in tournaments in surrounding counties with a much stronger hurling "tradition".

That is tough geographically and financially.

marty34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2020, 09:04:25 AM »
The reality is Antrim would want to be like Laois and Westmeath at the minute, chip away and maintain 1b status. That should be our level
westmeath and carlow have been doing it with a much smaller pool of players and clubs
and virtually no big development money spend

But their location means that the clubs can get a better standard of hurling, their schools and college's are playing in a far higher grade. We are 100. or 165 miles from our Ballycastle club to a standard (Dublin) level were want to be at, Carlow Westmeath are surrounded by great hurling counties.

That makes a huge difference in fairness
I dunno. It never made much of a difference before.
Antrim have a stronger historical tradition.
Antrim should be at the level of Laois.

Antrim played a lot of years at div one back in the day, during the mid late 80’s through to the late 90’s  we possibly have recovered from the shake up of the backdoor format and while our club teams compete we haven’t pushed on at county level, schools wise we never really did much too.
I think the system now is more sympathetic to counties outside the top 9 or 10. Before they were ignored. What are Laois doing that Antrim could emulate ? It would be great to see Antrim or Down horsing a bigger team out of it in the championship.

Thing is the Ulster champions got straight into an All Ireland semi-final for years.  That's the way the system was then. As Ulster champions, you were guaranteed a semi-final slot every year.

Not it's a more fairer competition, Ulster counties, especially Antrim, are at their level.

So in reality, Antrim were considered a 'tradititional' county as they always played in All Ireland semi-finals every year but apart from '89, they had very limited success.

Now they are, where they are and are building gradually.  Hopefully they can get a good run in the Joe Mc Donagh - but whether this goes ahead now is anybody's guess!!

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2020, 11:18:22 AM »
Look take away the getting into the semi finals after the Ulster campaign, the fact that we played div 1 for a lot of years and then for spells yo/yo'd between the divisions, we never feared Dublin Westmeath Laois Carlow, they were below us and have overtaken Antrim and Dublin have went on to become a top team...

Yes Antrim has to take responsibility of its own actions and hopefully we are on a progressive upturn, Like when Dinny came in we had a great lift in terms of attitude and the clubs bonded better when they were grouped together, I can see a change similar to that at the minute.

But we can't just dismiss the reasons I've outlined, distance between hurling counties, Antrim is surrounded by footballing counties, less competitive teams around us means travelling and that cost's money, we can only pit ourselves against the better teams if we play them more often. School/college hurling also needs a boost, grand getting Ulster but the likes of the traditional schools are being hammered at the semifinal stage nearly every year.

Something happened and I'm not sure when but there was an increase of skill, physicality, a change of approach and attitude with the traditional counties that Antrim didn't see, I've no reason why but the gulf started to appear and we have never been able to get back to that place, when we were able to hang onto the coat tails of the big teams, or steal a win here and there.

Antrim clubs can't be sure of even winning their Ulster club titles at club level (juinor, interm and senior) anymore! so while we have a great club championship at the minute with 4 competitive teams, we need to sort that out, and basing on what I've seen of S'neil these last few years we'd need get our act in order!
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

fearsiuil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2020, 07:44:01 AM »
What sort of numbers clubwise we talking about that hurl in Antrim ?

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2020, 03:34:13 PM »
What sort of numbers clubwise we talking about that hurl in Antrim ?

We’ve four hurling divisions,  8 Antrim teams in div one, four competing teams. Th e senior team had a mainly div1 players but a a few starters from lower leagues plus our captain
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2020, 04:07:34 PM »
Look take away the getting into the semi finals after the Ulster campaign, the fact that we played div 1 for a lot of years and then for spells yo/yo'd between the divisions, we never feared Dublin Westmeath Laois Carlow, they were below us and have overtaken Antrim and Dublin have went on to become a top team...

Yes Antrim has to take responsibility of its own actions and hopefully we are on a progressive upturn, Like when Dinny came in we had a great lift in terms of attitude and the clubs bonded better when they were grouped together, I can see a change similar to that at the minute.

But we can't just dismiss the reasons I've outlined, distance between hurling counties, Antrim is surrounded by footballing counties, less competitive teams around us means travelling and that cost's money, we can only pit ourselves against the better teams if we play them more often. School/college hurling also needs a boost, grand getting Ulster but the likes of the traditional schools are being hammered at the semifinal stage nearly every year.

Something happened and I'm not sure when but there was an increase of skill, physicality, a change of approach and attitude with the traditional counties that Antrim didn't see, I've no reason why but the gulf started to appear and we have never been able to get back to that place, when we were able to hang onto the coat tails of the big teams, or steal a win here and there.

Antrim clubs can't be sure of even winning their Ulster club titles at club level (juinor, interm and senior) anymore! so while we have a great club championship at the minute with 4 competitive teams, we need to sort that out, and basing on what I've seen of S'neil these last few years we'd need get our act in order!

A few things happened.

The resources required to compete at senior intercounty level is just on another plain now than it ever was back in the late 80's and 90's when it was a shock that Tipp County board paid a lad to come in and milk Bobby Ryans cows so that he could get to training. The Antrims of this world don't have that clout now and neither do the Laois's of this world..
If you look at the backroom teams in Limerick, Tipp, Cork, Galway, Kilkenny (even though they only go out and hurl  ;)  ), Wexford, and even Clare the rest can't keep up with that.

Secondly with the removal of the semi-final slot, initially to a quarter final slot then to nada the intercounty game lost its sparkle and you'd the likes of Dunloy there or there abouts in AI semi-finals and finals at club level it made staying with the club more appealing to players and that became prevalent from there on in and IMO is still there today.

Derry have always produced great club teams like Dungiven and Lavey in the 90's and 00's and S'Neill have taken Derry club hurling to another level, but not sure it'll have the desired impact at IC level.



seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25034
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2020, 09:05:36 AM »
Look take away the getting into the semi finals after the Ulster campaign, the fact that we played div 1 for a lot of years and then for spells yo/yo'd between the divisions, we never feared Dublin Westmeath Laois Carlow, they were below us and have overtaken Antrim and Dublin have went on to become a top team...

Yes Antrim has to take responsibility of its own actions and hopefully we are on a progressive upturn, Like when Dinny came in we had a great lift in terms of attitude and the clubs bonded better when they were grouped together, I can see a change similar to that at the minute.

But we can't just dismiss the reasons I've outlined, distance between hurling counties, Antrim is surrounded by footballing counties, less competitive teams around us means travelling and that cost's money, we can only pit ourselves against the better teams if we play them more often. School/college hurling also needs a boost, grand getting Ulster but the likes of the traditional schools are being hammered at the semifinal stage nearly every year.

Something happened and I'm not sure when but there was an increase of skill, physicality, a change of approach and attitude with the traditional counties that Antrim didn't see, I've no reason why but the gulf started to appear and we have never been able to get back to that place, when we were able to hang onto the coat tails of the big teams, or steal a win here and there.

Antrim clubs can't be sure of even winning their Ulster club titles at club level (juinor, interm and senior) anymore! so while we have a great club championship at the minute with 4 competitive teams, we need to sort that out, and basing on what I've seen of S'neil these last few years we'd need get our act in order!

A few things happened.

The resources required to compete at senior intercounty level is just on another plain now than it ever was back in the late 80's and 90's when it was a shock that Tipp County board paid a lad to come in and milk Bobby Ryans cows so that he could get to training. The Antrims of this world don't have that clout now and neither do the Laois's of this world..
If you look at the backroom teams in Limerick, Tipp, Cork, Galway, Kilkenny (even though they only go out and hurl  ;)  ), Wexford, and even Clare the rest can't keep up with that.

Secondly with the removal of the semi-final slot, initially to a quarter final slot then to nada the intercounty game lost its sparkle and you'd the likes of Dunloy there or there abouts in AI semi-finals and finals at club level it made staying with the club more appealing to players and that became prevalent from there on in and IMO is still there today.

Derry have always produced great club teams like Dungiven and Lavey in the 90's and 00's and S'Neill have taken Derry club hurling to another level, but not sure it'll have the desired impact at IC level.

It's not about the hurlers

It's all about the money

https://youtu.be/qMxX-QOV9tI
Lookit

clonadmad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2020, 03:02:20 PM »
Population wise

Shouldn’t Antrim have the resources?

618,000 in the county at the last census

I presume 40-45% of the population would be naturally predisposed towards playing Gaelic Games?

Which would still give you a potential  population pool greater than all serious hurling counties bar Cork and Dublin



Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2020, 03:52:17 PM »
Population wise

Shouldn’t Antrim have the resources?

618,000 in the county at the last census

I presume 40-45% of the population would be naturally predisposed towards playing Gaelic Games?

Which would still give you a potential  population pool greater than all serious hurling counties bar Cork and Dublin

Population wise its mainly in the city! West Belfast has a plenty of clubs, too many in my view, that’s a different argument for another day, the rest is made up of South/west teams, generally football only and the North Antrim lads, mainly all hurling.

The problem the city has is that we’ve lost the ability to hold on to them, lots of distractions other well run sports too, soccer is very well run at juvenile level. So the whole point of Galefast is to rejuvenate the GAA in Belfast, from primary through to college levels.

If we could gain promotion in both codes, if they ever happens with current issue, the need for a county ground to call home also required to boost enrolment.

But I get what you’re saying population wise we should be doing better
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2020, 03:16:36 PM »
Watching the Tipp v Kilkenny final on at the minute TG4, brilliant
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

marty34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2020, 04:28:38 PM »
Watching the Tipp v Kilkenny final on at the minute TG4, brilliant

Unreal entertainment - 3 draws in a row.

Some intensity in that game. Thw hooking and blocking was  fantastic.  The game had everythinng.

I'm sure the umpire at the end was glad Hawkeye was invented - that was his get out of jail card.

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23105
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2020, 04:30:10 PM »
There was one minute of injury each half! Barry Kelly wouldn’t have been Cody’s mate
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

marty34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
    • View Profile
Re: NHL 2020
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2020, 04:34:53 PM »
There was one minute of injury each half! Barry Kelly wouldn’t have been Cody’s mate

Watching it again, Kelly gave 2 ropey enough penalties to Tipp.

I though Darren Gleeson was lucky not to give one away when he dived out, feet first, to down Eoin Larkin.